Leaders in Lending
Leaders in Lending

Episode · 4 months ago

The Rise of Cloud Core Banking Systems

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In a digital world, legacy core banking systems just aren’t allowing banks to meet the demands of the modern customer. With the rise of digital banking, cloud core banking systems are entering the picture.


Tyler Craft, SVP, Head of VirtualBank & Fintech at First Horizon Bank, shares why his team decided to transition the VirtualBank brand to a cloud core system and how the lessons from that experiment are transferred across the larger First Horizon ecosystem.

Tyler heads VirtualBank, a digital-only division of First Horizon Bank. First Horizon Bank has been around since 1864 and its mission is to provide the best service to its customers, one opportunity at a time.

We discuss:

- The process of transitioning VirtualBank to cloud core

- Why VirtualBank remained a separate brand

- The thought process behind new products to VirtualBank

- Insight into a bank’s fintech strategy

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Getting more smart people engage in theprocess that are the care a lot about the wellbeing of our clients and theindustry, and that kind of think that's that's really valuable. You are listeningto leaders and lending from upstart a podcast dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow theirprograms and improve their product offerings. Each week here, decision makers in thefinance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry best practices around digitaltransformation. In more let's get into the show. Welcome to leaders and lending. I'm your host, Jeff Keltner. This week we're featuring my conversation withtyler craft, who leads the virtual bank and Fintech at first Horizon Bank.I think it's a really interesting conversation. We talked through some of what firsthorizon is doing and standing up virtual bank, which is an all digital bank,really actually not standing up as much as growing that brand, and Ithink it's a fascining discussion of how they're doing that, why they choose togo down that path on some lessons you can learn also a little bit aboutsome of what tyler seeing in Fintech and the way they approach that space,which is a pretty unique approach. And finally, some career and, mymay I say, life advice from from Tyler. That, I think,is something I'll be taking to heart and hoping to do a little bit betterjob of in the future. So a lot of great tidbits for you.I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Hey, tyler, thanks so much for joiningus today on the podcast. Awesome. I'm excited to be here. Iyou know, I was really interested in this conversation. I know we'vehad it on the on the books for a while, but you guys havetaken an interesting approach to the the digital transition in terms of, I think, what you're calling virtual bank. I'd love to hear a little bit aboutthe story of what you guys are doing in that vein and why? cuseI think it's quite different than what others in the space are doing and Ithink it's a really fascinating approach. Yeah, I'm happy to talk about that andyou're right, it is an exciting thing that we're doing. It's alittle bit different of an approach and it's something that we're pumped about words goingto take us as a company potentially so virtual bank, just to sort ofset a little bit of Brown work here. Yeah, is a brand. It'sa division of First Horizon Bank, really part of the bank, justa separate brand designed to be an online only brand. Virtual Bankcom is thewebsite for that and it's actually a brand that has been around for over twodecades. And so it's started as its own independent bank called Virtual Bank and, through a series of murders and all sorts of things along the way,eventually landed with Iberia Bank, which is merging. The first ride in.It is legally merge with our stries in two thousand and twenty and two thousandand twenty one we're doing the conversion of that merger. So we started offwith this opportunity by virtue of a murder. And in two thousand and twenty,around the time that we were finishing up our legal murder and getting readyfor the new organization to kick off, we looked at virtual bank. Iknew that we had some ideas. Is On our road maps at first risein and then Iberia Bank was also looking at some of these things for longterm around looking in new cores, looking at new capabilities, moving things intothe cloud, riding on Api dri than rails, versus more etl like.What is that? What is that modernization going to look like over time?And we kind of had the realization, well, we can convert virtual bankto the same chord as everything else, or we can take advantage of theopportunity. It's a narrower scope of products, specific set of customers exped to interactwith US digitally, pretty much. Only we don't have branches for virtualbanks. It's a digital ecosystem. So let's take advantage of that opportunity inthe necessity of a conversion and go look at doing some some modernization. They'renow RAPP and what we did in that process is assessed the field of playersand talked a lot different people and then did a conversion of virtual bank thatwe successfully did in July two thousand and twenty one. Converted Virtual Bank toa cloud core, which is fins act, which many people are probless, withcloud based servicing layer called Savannah,...

...which really integrates well with thins act, and then new online banking, online account opening website tool called aperture,which also has interacted with that ecosystem in the past and converted our clients ontoit. There's a litany of other pieces to the puzzle that that are alsoparts of this that are helping move everything fide and processing to Ach Money Movementto deposit capture and all of those things are captured with other tools and kindof building out the EGOSYSTEM, but those are three core components and we partneredwith whip row and built this out. We actually one of my favorite partsof this, reflecting back on just truly something else. We W three hundredand seventy days from the first meeting with things act to go live, twohundred and twenty seven days from contract signatures to go a lot. We obviouslyput it fast team to people were really focused on it. We were ableto do some of the between day three, seventy, two twenty seven. Wedid a lot of planning, obviously, but you really moved fast and efficientlyand state very focused on what our true objectives were in saying the firststeps of what could be a bigger modernization opportunity for first drive. How doyou think you were able to to move? I mean I typically see a lotof institutions in the financial services space that have goals to move quickly.I've had many a bank. Tommy will be the fastest you've worked with.And then you know, internal processes set in, committees get involved and theyend up being typically slower execute than most of the business leaders want do tojust internal structures, committees, approval processes, etc. How do you think youguys were able to kind of be faster? I think you told methat you were. You signed with FINZAC later than a couple companies, butone live before are some of them because you were faster through the pipes andI'm turious what, if there's any advice you have or things you felt helpedmake you more effective at driving that process more quickly. Yeah, this issomething we've talked a lot about internally, talked with with others about that.We never going through similar journeys as well, and for us there were a fewfactors. One, and you can't be overshaded, is we knew wehad a narroscope of product so we offer consumer, money market and CD products. We didn't try to bite off every product in the bank for the firstof this. We knew where we were starting and we really focused on that. So that that does clarify things of that. The other reality is wehave a conversion in two thousand and twenty one. So there was a littlebit of necessity, as the mother of invention, or necessity of this Babwas was the mother of, you know, getting this done on time and onspedule, and so that that helps day focus. And really all thatdid is just provide clarity along the way when you need to make a decision, of what what can help you make decisions. And then, lastly,we had some really good principles that we set out back in two thousand andtwenty when we were planning all this, that we stuck to and we cameback to. When you come to a fork in the road, think aboutsimplification, right. So don't don't overengineer something, because the odds are we'regoing to learn a lot of lessons in the first iteration and we're going toneed to to improve over time and we're going to need to add new capabilitiesand we're going to learn a lot. Huh, let's not over engineer ourfirst processors so that we have to go undo that later when we want tochange our approach a little better will wed. Let's focus on take a simplification process. If you can obviously do it correctly first, but where possible sinceand so we really stuck to that and we tried to model that when wemade decisions. So we one of the things that we would make decisions forour project team as a team, in meetings together and be very transparent aboutwhat we're thinking through. And sometimes that means, okay, we're not goingto roll out with this capability when we go live, or we're going towait and that's going to be phase one dot one or one dot five versusone Dotoh, because that is going to add risk to the testing process.And why would we want to do that...

...when we don't have to risk aretesting processes? We've rather, yea more for testing and test things well versusless reager to test them mored. So we did that over and over andover again, and we had a really good line of communication. Also theexecutive management. I think this is the last factor that helped a lot,is we've structured virtual bank under its reviewed by an oversight board that has ourCEO, CFO, head of business transformation, who's my boss, chief digital officerand head of regional bank strategy and delivery. So you've got people fromall different aspects of the bank, kind of keeping anisle this as we alsoworked really closely with our merger project office because this is part of the mergerdo you've got another set of folks in their achieve for ask officer your otherboth sides of the bank sitting in math. So you're getting perspective from a lotof different people, being very transparent. Everybody's aligned or what we're trying toaccomplish. So you get those hut questions out early, work through them, get clear answers and keep pushing forward. So good, clearly purpose. Wehave the last thing too, and this is probably most important for reallystruct team. We were very fortunate the people that we've had working on thisproject. We've had a mix of Legacy Iberia Bank Legacy First Rise in bank. Obviously the whip pro team has been phenomenal, and then our vendor teamalso has come to the table and rolled up their sleeves into the partner.The first meeting we had we said we want to build something that we canall be proud of, and that goes for every for the visitors as wellas for the bank. It's not just about the vendors. are kind ofyou know, getting us a service that we pay far enough the end ofthe convertation that we want to all be proud of this send and by theend of the project you sort of hear people talk about like virtual bank astheir baby and they're so proud of it and they're people that don't work forthe bank and so bring in the process and and speaking through questions and helpingsolve problems that they feel connected to. And I think that attitude that everybodybought in on made a big difference when you had to make tough decisions orwhen you had to work extra or whatever to move I like to a strongteam, keep the scope simple and then rate, I think, and insupport from the top. I think it's critical because it is it's different havingthe CFO or the chief risk cops are involved that in a risk committee.That's, you know, a layer. But the other thing I like aboutthat, so I'm curious if this was internal or external, is kind ofa forcing function. You said we we knew we had a two thousand andtwenty one conversion and sometimes, like a brick wall, is a pretty useful, pretty useful forcing function. was that something you had decided internally was therea reason that you had? I'm kind of curious cause I've seen both realforcing functions, like with market external reality, and sometimes you just kind of createthem out of whole cloth because you know, the team needs a deadlinethat with some sort of sort of rigidity to it to run towards, andI'm curious that was like a more of an artificial thing. You guys createdit to drive motivation or just a reality you were dealing with. It's thebigger murder conversion, bride, Your Bank and birth driving. Yeah, becausethis is coming over from Iberia Bank. That conversion is in two thousand andtwenty one and we wanted to it's gotta go somewhere. We went for exactlywhen a virtual bank to go first, but ahead of the rest that convergence. You didn't have these like boting old events where you're converting virtual bank inthe same time everything else is converting and you're just sort of taking your resourcesand spraying them more thinly. You wanted to be able to have so thatwas our that was the wall, that was the forcing function. was thatwe had forcing function? Yeah, yeah, they are. They are useful,though, and I have seen them artificially created for these purposes, whichis we just can't see. Was Not to see it was it was.Yeah, it's Nice if you don't have to make it up, but itcan be valuable as a tool because it is very useful. I want toask a little bit about you've kept virtual bank as a separate brand, andone strategy you could have taken at point of conversion was, and I seemany banks, most Ma's right, go this way where you end up wantingto have a singular brand, and obviously...

I think you're doing that on theIberia First Fries inside, but you left Virtual Bank as a digital bank onits own, and I'm curious to rationale for that, because I think manypeople will go hey, we need to make our core offerings more digitally enabled, but we don't want to have a different thing that's digital only on theside that that's not integrated. And you guys did not choose that path.We talked a bit about the practicality of getting there and the integration the conversion, but strategically, why was that the path you guys thought was was useful? Like why did you go down the path of keeping virtual bank a separatething, a separate brand, a different core than what you're what you're doingfor the larger bank. I mean, the way I think about it itis probably just a function of my own background and banking and things that goingto pass. I wor think about it as a regression of how many variablescan I control? Don't like it. And byling all of this together I'vegot I'm introducing new independent variables and I don't know what's causing what. Always. And so virtual bank, because we really are about ninety five plus percenton different tech than then moll rest of the leg this bank, and we'dlimited. Obviously we've got these a general ledger integrated and and some of therisk and fraud files were integrated with tightly, because those you need it enterprise scalefor it an eighty seven billion dollar bank. That's a those are verycritical. But but within the ecosystem we're really stealf contained there, and sothat gives us clarity into what we're learning and what it's related to. Sowe're not ever confused on our learning something because this client interacts with the branchesthat were here and then they use this digital channel and we put them intothe new APP. Also, we're learning things that are specific to Rical Bankand, as I mentioned earlier, because we have this oversight board that includesleadership from our regional bank, includes our chief digital officer and it is interactingwith leadership across the bank, we're able to find ways to learn lessons thatare applicable to the resting. So we're learning the core lessons. Try.We're learning about cloud course and real time seven courts. We're learning about newservicing systems. We're learning about new online obviously, but we're also learning aboutdo business on those things. We're learning about integrating new tools into those thingsand some of those tools may have immediate use cases in other business lines andwe can learn them narrower scope, at smaller scale and then say yeah,we you should go do that big project around this. At least based onwhat we've seen so far, it makes sense. Or you know what,actually just made us bless efficient and it was a little bit harder to dothan we thought it was going to be. We might want to keep looking fora better solution. We can learn it in keeping that open conversation goingwith leadership across the bank is just as critical as having virtual event built outin its own box to learn it. H I really like that idea of, you know, limiting your scope so you can move more quickly, becauseI do see one of the things that large banks as they go through transitionto digital, it's like there's so many things you have to do it's hardto learn and control and move quickly because you're just you got so many productsto bring. So I think that's a really interesting approach that would probably allowyou guys to move much more quickly. So I've kind of curious two thingson that front. The first is what's the vision for, you know,bringing new products into Virtual Bank? You talked about mostly depository accounts being kindof the core history of of the virtual bank customer base and the current productoffering. Where are you going in terms of what you want to make availablethrough that offering and the time frame for expanding into you know, it couldbe we're going to be everything a bank could be as quickly as possible,or is it going to be a more, you know, tempered approach to rollingout over time? So I'll start without when I got other ones,but I'm kind of cares where we where you going with them with that ratethan lending I guess that's where you're trying to get you. Well, Ididn't have to be but yeah, I'm curious, like, what's your strategyis to move beyond because I don't think you would stand this up just tojust to keep a bunch of DA accounts around and maybe try and grab somemore some more deposits. You're going to do something bigger. So I'm justkind of curious how you think about what that is and what the kind ofroad map is for moving into more products.

Yeah, so there's three big strategicbuckets for virtual bank. One is that it's an online liquidity tool.Right, it's what it's been for the last see when you and so wehave that we did give any of that capability up. You know, aswith most banks, that banks have lots of liquidity these days. So that'sless urgent of a strategic thing, but but the tools still there. Wedidn't reduce our tool set at all. The second piece is what we justtalked to you a lot, which is sort of this opportunity for us todevelop the infrastructure of the future for the rest of the bank or parts ofthe bank or specific use gas. The third piece is building a true digitalonly vertical, and there are a segment of climates who expect to interact witha digital bank, who don't go into branches anymore or who have a differentexpectation for what their interactions are with the bank, and we want to thinkabout what it might mean to deliver services to the we're doing a lot ofwork in the second half of the year, two thousand and twenty one, ondifferent versions of how that can play out and in different road master products. So we've got kind of a green field here where you do have doingit any of the products set in any particular direction to align with specific nicheaudiences. How broad do we want to appeel out of the gate and whatkind of Road Mapps? That's like six months, eighteen month, five yearhorizon on what we can do, and we're actually doing a lot of workaround that right now. So I'm being somewhat circumspect because inspect, because whateverI say now will be rolling sticks months on a certainly instead, I don'twant to after first course. Yeah, s advised to say that. ThirdBucket is really thinking about product. Right now. We're already working on newcapabilities being introduced into Virtual Bank Huh this year that we're not there previously.That don't currently exist. Its scale across first horizon that will be introducing laterin the year. That give us this kind of first glimpses of really doingsome unique things because we're digital first, because we have a real time cloudcore, because we're able, any rate so tightly through apis across our onlineservicing in core platforms. We're looking at introducing some things that will look likethat. And no product services but also product. Yeah, I like youryour focus on speed and keeping your optionality open. I was reminded the oldsign was that no battle plans survives first contact with the enemy. Whatever yousay is I think maybe we did revise. No go to market plan survives firstcontact with the customer. Maybe is. I don't want to call customer theenemy, but it is true that you have your plan and then yougo to market. And that paraphrase, yeah, about getting punched when youget in the ring. Yeah, that's right, it's there. I thinkthey're all kind of saying the same thing. But you know, once you getout there, you got it. You got to react what you seeand it's interesting strategy. How much do you think of your learnings and andhow intentional is it that the learnings you have in the context of virtual bankhave an impact on the strategy or decisions it would be made for first horizonmore generally, because I imagine you you can be a separate thing, thatis a virtual bank that's not all digital but not not sharing its insights,and then there's a model of this where the kind of the sharp into thespear for things that maybe the broader first Horizon Bank wants to take advantage ofand learn from, and I'm curious if that's strategically where you're going in,if so, how you think about facilitating the learnings from one to the other? Very much is about sharing the learning. That is Corp what we're doing,I think I should stay, is we are a sharp end of thisbeer, not be sharping because you look at our products, at being nearand we can't cover everything in virtual bank. That's not a strangle whole. SecondBank within the bank, I'm so I'm pretty strong functions that there,but you don't have everything. We've got teams that are doing things on thetradery management front with API banking. There you've got our morrtgage team has donesome really front for the things in digital...

...interaction. Obvious there. Digital teamreally crossed the bank that are are doing things that are very fun fled aswell, but don't or don't always have overlap with what we're doing. SoI want to say that because this is a company those thing of how wecan all learn each other and stay in contact with each other as much asit is a virtual so the answer your question is it's very much about thatcommunication back and forth. To me when we went live, you know,shocker, we've had not zero complaints like some people don't like, and thatis probably least surprising things that they'll and and so you know, you getan email. Someone said, I liked the way this used to be inonline bank. Very common thing. So one of the emails that we got, I can tell the way it was written and we haven't gotten overallming number, but we have. We perceived some. I was reading them and one waswritten and I was like, I think this person works in software developed. They're using words that only people that work in software developments reviews. Andso I just called her and we had a really interesting conversation about her seeexperience and I kind of told her like here's what we're working on, here'swhat the future looks like. A virtual bank in your account is basically I'mchanged. Let's talk about where we're headed. I would love to include you insome CX labs that were doing so we she had was really positive conversation. She was very appretiure reached out immediately tire, head of CEX, rightafter that for first Rizon, instead of Jeff. You know, I wouldlove to make sure that we have this on the road map and let's seeinclude this pliant in this conversations. And so jeff is like, yeah,here's a set of ideas I have that we've learned from other areas that Ido, seex labs doing monitoring or whatever else, and we can apply thisto virtual bank because we've already learned some lessons and also, by the way, I've been really thinking about this. Can we start to like look atsome of that in Virtual Bank for the first time? And Steve, itapplies for the parts of company. So that was a really bit micro cause. And of yeah, we had a customer that had a question. Wetalked about I want to loop in CX. We got learning from CX sex senseof ideas that they want to start with virtual bank, and that's thekind of model that will have. I think there are others that are moretechnical or systems that yeah as well. Yeah, do you have a morelike a structured or formal way to share that feedback through regular sets of MECAS? That I always wonder if you know it's great when you have a relationshipwith Jeffs, not me, job with the other jeff all right, andyou can give a phone call and you think to do that, but it'salso easy to for you know, as you as a cut as the organizationgrows, that that customer idea comes in, it gets lost, it doesn't getshared, and having the pipes kind of built that facilitates that is important. Have you thought about ways, or do you have structures for kind ofensuring that that ongoing dialog stays healthy and study? Yeah, the first oneis our overshect board. And who's on that, ever, sector, butagain, because you have aross functional people, there a lot of what that groupdoes. It says, Hey, can you talk to this person aboutthis, this person about this, and and then it's also that next roundright outside the board of stakeholders that I just stay in regular in contact theother half of my job, I think virtual bank, but also we cantextrated people a company, and so that happens. Is Really About having thoseconversations with league tames and leaders and executives across the company to know where ouropportunities are nowhere. We want to look for fintech solutions that we don't havetoday and spending time there. And so you know, that's a lot oftime with our CRO OUR CMO, those types of people, Jaff or CX are hencx other teams like that from the Commercial Bank specialty, thank whateverthe case may be. Those conversations also lead to computings about the Purple Bank. So there's a little bit of natural condition, but because of the roleboth that I sit in and the way our board of structured, it's openingthose doors in a very formal way. Of You need to talk to theCMO about this and you guys work together on one how you might both trysome new marketing things and think about the...

...niche targeting the virtual bank long termas you do product development, and also are the things that marketing team wantsto learn from Virtil Bank doing a invest of what we're doing with digital marketing. firstureize and then do a be will virtual bank. There are lots ofopportunities. There's there are a lots. So you open the door to awhole nother area of conversation. Tyler, which I go around of time,but he said you had a Fintex strategy as well as running virtual bank.So talk to a little bit about from a Fintex strategy point of view,like what are the big areas you're focused on? Problem you challenge that thebank you look you to address our opportunities you see, I feel like it'sthere's a lot of stuff going on in Fintech. Even today there's like somemajor acquisition going on in the FINTEX space. So I'm just curious, like wheredo you see as a big opportunities when you look out strategically? Whatare the kind of categories of stuff you're focused on? Is the big opportunitiesfor the bank? Yeah, so I'll did a couple things on this.First of all, the way we approach this question is, yeah, I'msure of the three broad buckets around Fintac, one is venture, and so we'relike adventures alliance as well as doing some venture investment of our own thatwe've done, hi, some one off cables. We also look at fintachpartnerships as a tool for solving problems, and so I always telling my thesishere is probably we're not encountering problems for the first time, and I'll goa step further and say probably somebody built a company around solving this problem.Let's go find and so we have a something that we're working on, whetherit's infrastructure, client experience or anything in between. Is there somebody that's builta company around this and the best cases it's somebody that we're invested in orthinking about investing in or may yeah, making that investment, and we sitat the table from that point of view. We sit at the table from weneed your services and would love to have a contract. And Oh,by the way, we love to sit down you and think about how you'redeveloping your road map and spend time talking about so we're trying to get thatclicked about it. The last pieces, we do a little bit of bankingas a service as well, and so we have some bankers. They reallyspecialize in that and been able to have a few YEP, fintech clients thatneed that, and so we also have that as a perfect to that's threeBushian I three broad buckets of stuff that you do. It's really brought upsthe Sir when the third bucket there. We have this banker team that reallyfocuses on that. So that's that's certainly poll outside of my scope. Thesecond one we really have a group of people across the bank that are workingtogether and looking at the technology side, to the XI, Yep, thecustomer sales side, whatever the case may be, and talking about like whatwe need from Vintech. And in the first one we have we stood upadventure subsidiary, have an investment board in that kind of thing as well.So it's, you know, a collaborative process of a lot of people.From your initial question of like the big trends. Yes, for me it'ssort of taking the next step on what we get from a lot of things. So the last few years has been a lot of work around data,there's been a lot of work around insights. Now I think we're getting increasingly andmaybe this is happening faster than I realized, in some cases, seemsactionable inside. And so taking that date and take the models that people willwant to put in place, whether it's citizens, scientists or products that arereally built out with really sharp ai, but then turning that into actionable thingson the ground, whether it's for bankers meeting with clients or bankers in theback off its knowing word of energy and reviews, or for clients actually,and I've seen several companies come up lately that are doing a lot of workaround this, driving insights to clients that that I apply and action and canhelp a client really do what they're trying to do, which is have bettermanagement of their money and understand their financial situation. Yeah, foundational, butbecause we have these data layers now that there a lot of people couldn't placeover the last several years and understanding around the model of that data, you'renow getting into this next phase. The other space that I think is isreally interesting and there's some couple companies I'm really excited about that are doing greatthings here, and it's some risk space.

I think there's a lot of opportunitythere. But what we all know is every time we get smarter,the bad guys also get smarter and they think about ways fraud or or dosomething negative to our clients or to Bens or whatever, and there's so muchopportunity there for companies to help solve that problem, identify issues before their issues, help clients a kind of goes into that actionable insight phase a little bitpeople understandable happening and what matters the most, but really focusing on bringing data togetherfrom outside sources that can be used to make better decisions on the frontend or identify things. There's there a couple companies. They are doing smartthings that I'm excited about, but I think we're going to be a lotmore. And then the last one is broadly in the commercial space of reallysolving for big commercial relationship type of things. There's some I certain I have amild boss used to say that if you get car companies, they tendto start building the you know, the e class or the set and seriesfirst and they get everything built out there like okay, we can scale thispart up and that will eventually make its way down to the sea class forthe three series or Tesla. Right started with the roadster, went to theeye likes. Start at the high end work it's way down and the visionof the three them like the teacher, you're going to matter, and sowe're just going to build it and then we're going to we're going to pushit down and in some ways, if you think that, vintex i's theopposite. been tacking a lot of places to started. Yeah, just likewe start with basic mass market things that they're sort of the simple use casesand we're not going to really get into when somebody has a really complex treasurymanagement relationship and participation one in those. Because of you're starting to see morecompanies think about that, the more fintex think about that. Obviously banks thatare in the space or looking for technology opportunities. I've mentioned earlier. TraderManagement Team is doing some really cool things with their technology stack. I thinkwe're going to continue to see more of that as we sort of see peoplesolve problems. Once a problem is solved, once we understand how to create bettertools, with ntext or large and Traduy management type companies, you're goingto see that get push the market quickly. They're the huge value that from me, and so that may take the form of process automation and orchestration allthe way through the lending process, all the way through to how people actuallyhandle their cash flow, which is which is really interesting. So I thinkthat's one that we're not quite really in yet. But I've seen some really, really safe companies doing some cool stuff there. On the money movement finefor Lord, helps things up for money movements so they can interesting getting themoney where they want and any writing. That all together to really tight solutions. I think is we're getting into. That that's has I certainly hear alot about data and insights. I think that's just like a common theme formy conversations. Risk that the large COMMERCI relationships is a different one. AskYou one more question the space and then we should let you get on withyour day. But you know the of your three modes of interacting with fintexright. The Venture, I get the the bankings of service makes sense.The partnerships makes a lot of sense. But I'm I'm curious how you thinkabout that as differing from in some ways I feel like everything old is newagain. Like fintext that are partnership opportunities are kind of like like old school. Not that on old school, but they're the relationship can be either moreof a partnership or more of a traditional FIS, fiserve Jack. I meanit's like there are technology provider and many ways to a bank. I'm curiousto be think of managing those relationships. Finally, partners substantially differently than moreestablished technology players, because I I think, I think some of those guys reallyupset, like Fintex so sexy that we've been Fintech for thirty years,fifty years we've been fintech. Do you think of that kind of newer companyFintech Partnership Model, where you're talking about bringing something in to solve a probleminside the institution or take advantage of an opportunity that's harder for you to dointernally, as substantially different than your more established technology player relationships in important ways, because they are in some ways very...

...similar, right to how you wouldjust buy a legacy core system in and we're partner with that individuals. There'skind of curious how you think about the difference between sentech partnerships and more establishedtechnology of vender type relationships? Yeah, so I'm going to pull a weirdanalogy for this, but it's, I like it, typware analogist and thetiming is funny. It's talking to somebody the other day that didn't realize theyno more Taritaville was a song, the Neve was a restaurant, and soit's explaining to the idea of Margaritaville is a state of mind more than anything. It's a state of mind. Yeah, and so partnership is the state ofmind that's right. Going to that like it's not. There's not likea magic sauce and talking to Jackiary, if I surprivor for Stato or,you know, Fins Act or Aperture Savannah or anybody specific, there isn't justa magic to the fact that they're, you know, by virtue of theirperson as a start there. It's an attitude in the mind set to chapterbeing. I have in the pass work very closely with with FIS, firstdays of Jack Henry, all of those companies on projects and done some coolthings there. I think when we look at our partnership model of part ofintent tribe were saying, we see that their new capabilities emerging. We seepeople getting to market really quickly with things. We see that customers are very delightedby some of the new things that come to mark. And what shouldwe be learning from that? What should we be taking back into the bankthat we need to be able to provide this reliable, long term where ahundred and sixty year old company, give or take, and so we needto help to think in a very long term type way about we're providing youstability and security and structure, and also we want you to be happy aboutwhat you're being provided. And there are companies that seem to be very goodat that and they seem to typically be companies that are more in the fintechbucket of more merging fan ta yea than maybe established intact. And so isthere a mindset there that we can work with them both to internalize the mindsetand in our own company and also to take some of those capabilities to marketto both solve our problems internally, whether it's just making something run more smoothlyor in a more modern way or be up twenty four seven, because it'snot only batch process or whatever, and then also take a fine and givethem the advantage of it and think in new ways on the half of ourclients and in partnership with their clients. I think it's a mindset. Thinkit has to start there. I think in some ways there's a reality thata company that is five years old has a different set of priorities than acompany that, you know, is a hundred million dollars in revenue or somethinglike that, and they're going to nest approach things differently. And so whenyou say, Hey, we love to be in your next CAP table,in your next round, and we'd also be interested in like taking your productand solving this specific problem, would you sit down with us for the nextthree months and think about what the architecture of that would be? Yeah,there's a different idea of what that can look like with companies that are alittle bit younger. Yeah, I think it particularly to find up venture investment. But it's on these things that it's you know, getting more smart peopleengage in the process that are then care a lot about the wellbeing of ourclients and in the industry and that kind of thing. That's that's really valuable. Excellent. Well, this has been fascinating conversations. I feel like wecould keep going forever. We haven't even gotten to like a Memphis, whichis where you are and where I grew up. So I mean row youare in Raleigh, but the bank is in is in Memphis, right.The bank is in Memphis. Headquartered banks and could the Memphis we've got.WE'RE MEMPHIS. Iberia was the Lofe at Louisiana, and well, Louisia.There's a lot of people still there all around thoms. It's Florida. Sowe're Nice. How are you guys doing the virtual I mean, not thatwe do want to get to the last re questions, but how have youguys managed the transition to virtual world or covid? Go back to off asI feel like at particularly in the context of Virtual Bank? It's it's probablyinteresting conversation because you don't have to go back in the branches, which iscertainly a forcing function for for many institutions to go back. But where areyou guys at? It sounds like you get a very distributed team for whatI'm used to it many financial institutions.

Yeah, absolutely, I mean Ithink we were some that set up successfully for that because we're bringing coming togetherwhere people were distributing. Ibery Bank as a long tradition of bringing banks togetherand having people all over the place. So that was helpful. And thenPPP, speaking of forcing functions, the PPP process where we were all workingfrom home. I worked a lot on that and we had a lot ofpeople that really put a lot of effort into solving problems really quickly and thinkingwell about technology and virtual solutions and people worry from home and then just interactinglike we were sitting next to each other for a few weeks, especially earlyon in the PPP process. So that was a great example of how peoplewere like okay, well, we're this is how we're going to work nowand let's do that. Guess it was a it's steep in the learning curve, I imagine, PPP, but also it's somewhat of a positive way because, yeah, yeah, to forcing fucus, you had to figure out how tomake it work and then you're you kind of probably built some processes andmuscles that were yeah, we're good to the longer term. So I typicallyin this podcast with the same three questions. I'm going to I'm not throw themmatch you now with the rapid fire. Hope you read them in advancing.I was coming. But the number one was what what's the best pieceof career advice you've ever gotten? So I'm going to break the rules hereand give you two answers. It's now rules, no rules here. Whatone? The first one is my great aunt. When I was nine yearsold, one time I was nervous about talking to someone that that we sawat a museum and she got down like eye level with me and said,tyler, everyone puts on their pants the same way every morning. You andthe Queen of Evel, and I took away from that like treating people always, no matter what they're doing, as important by virtue of being a personand their individuality matters and they are important as a human first and foremost,and that's that's really where it stops, and treated a body the same basedon that reality. That's been really important to me in my career because Itry to out. The second piece is my mom when she dropped me offat school, every single day that she dropped me off at school, becauseI'm a bit of a talker. As we gathered in the lines every singlething with my mom brought me off at school, she would look at mein the eye and kind of like begging me more than telling me, shouldsay, please be a listener today because I talk so much. She stillsaid that to you want to hang up the phone. That I think beinga listener is another one, because you learn a lot more when your mouthshut your years. Right. Yeah, so it's good. I like that. That's that's the second person this week that's given me that piece of adviceto listen. More so, if that's the targeted to me or just generallife vice. I'm not supposed to talk on the podcast. Eyes about aboutyour perspectives, not mine. So my second question. What's the best pieceof advice about consumer lending or consumer banking you've gotten since you've been in theindustry? Yeah, I think it's a great that's actually a hard question becauseI don't like it. It is a hard question. I kind of thinkI don't know what I would say if I were asked. So I feelbad for asking if I think like a good answer. So yeah, Ithink it kind of goes back. This is so fundamental that it's borderline Cliche, but it's listened to your customers and there's two implications that I've always takenaway with that. I worked a lot on strategy plans and past and whereyou often come to start with the strategy plan is know what you mean foryour customers to be. And so if you're hearing from people your products don'tmake sense to them or it's not aligned them, like, are you eventalking to the people you meant to talk to? Have you built products fora whole different set of customers than the customers you have? And you reallyneed to understand who your customers are, you want to be when we growup, if you will, and what they're telling you about that and beopen to that. And so that applies and beeking consumer lending and deposits inany kind of consumer interaction, especially because you know, consumers are not monolithic. There is a whole different segments with...

...their segments on segments, on segmentshere of how people expect to interact with their bank, what they're looking for, what problems they're trying to solve, and you have to really presently whatwe are and here's what we're not in, here's what we're trying to do,set the right expectations, deliver on that and when you learn a lessonlearning and go go apply those learning. So it's problem, much, muchmore wrong than consumer lending, for sure. But I mean, yeah, Ithink very prussure from somebody coming from strategy, because strategies in my experience, where that often because upside down, where you say this is what wewould like everyone to want, because this is what strategically would fit in thebanks long plan, and then it turns out maybe your customers don't don't wantthat, don't need that, and so flipping that around. I think it'sreally important. Good coming from strategy guy, because I think often strategies where yougo no, no, this is way we want the world, thefat versus what the world we actually have to work over a vision like.I think delivering a vision to Yep, marketplace is important because that's how youcan really tell people about something they may have never imagined. Or clearly somebodymay look at and say, you know what, this isn't for me,it's for somebody else. Is Solving somebody else's and that's okay too, becauseif they're you don't want them trying to solve problems that that you can't solvewith your brother. Yeah, so I think it's really understanding that dyning.Yeah, all right, my last question. What's a bold prediction for the future? HMM, this is my favorite because, yeah, all sorts ofways like this one. You go a lot of different reactions to this,but I think that a bold prediction for the future of consumer lending, startwith just consumer lending, is that consumer lending will be even more point ofstale or into the future so on. You know, the long term thaton this would be that that, you know, in a few decades,people buy their house by scanning a Qr Code and everything else take care ofitself and just shortening the timelines significantly, which probably and the other maybe partof the bold prediction is I don't think it goes to people just going willingNelly. So my real bold prediction for consumer products in general is that actually, people don't want all the speed that we give them sometimes, and wewe give because we can, because we can press the pedal to the metal, we do, but sometimes people want a little friction. But people justdon't want the friction where it is today. They don't want the friction the approvalprocess, which means somebody else goes and pays all cash for the Houseand they lose out on it. What they have is process that helps themmake them know when they go to buy the house, it's the House thatthey wanted. And so how do you produce time. That versus time intogetting through the process of a mortar song or you know, how do youintroduce time into planning for your future and what you want to do, whereyou want to go on vacation next year and building the the financial plan aroundthat, versus having to spend a bunch of time moving money back and forthand looking for my throw deposits and all of those little things that are justthe tactical pieces before we can set the tactical great, but it's so thatwe can add time into the strategic in the customers in line with the customersbills, shift the time from the tactical to the strategic. I love it. That's that's beautiful. It's a great way to end the the discussion.So I'll just say thanks so much for joining me today. This was afascinating discussion and I appreciate your taking the time. Yeah, yeah, Ienjoyed it. Up Start Partners with thanks and credit unions to help grow theirconsumer loan portfolios and deliver a modern, all digital lending experience. As theaverage consumer becomes more digitally savvy, it only makes sense that their bank doestoo. Up Starts AI landing platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to more accuratelyidentify risk and approve more applicants than traditional credit models. With fraud rates nearzero. Upstarts all digital experience reduces manual processing for banks and offers a simpleand convenient experience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existingpersonal and auto lenning programs or you're just...

...getting started, upstart can help.Upstart offers an into end solution that can help you find more credit worthy borrowerswithin your risk profile, with all digital underwriting, onboarding, loan closing andservicing. It's all possible with upstart in your corner. Learn more about findingnew borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process and growing your business by visiting UPSTARTCOMforward dash banks. That's UPSTARTCOM FORWARD DA banks. You've been listening to leadersand lending from upstart. Make sure you never miss an episode. Subscribe toleaders and lending in your favorite podcast player using apple podcast. Leave as aquick rating by tapping the number of stars you think the show deserves. Thanksfor listening. Until next time. The views and opinions expressed by the hostand guests on the leaders and lending podcast are their own and their participation inthis podcast does not imply an endorsement of such views by their organization or themselves. The content provided is for informational purposes only and the discussion between the hostand guests should not be taken as financial advice by companies or individuals.

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