Leaders in Lending
Leaders in Lending

Episode · 1 year ago

Credit Union Advocacy: Key Areas of Focus to Improve Accessibility

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Credit Union National Association , or CUNA, represents 5,000 credit unions in the United States serving more than 120 million americans.

In partnership with a network of state credit union leagues and associations, CUNA advocates on behalf of its members and works to ensure that they are able to improve their members’ financial well-being and advance the communities they serve.

Ryan Donovan , Executive Vice President and Chief Advocacy Officer, joins the show to discuss CUNA’s four primary areas of advocacy.

We discuss:

- What CUNA does and what their mission is

- Emerging consumer lending trends in credit unions

- Using AI and ML to improve business strategies

- Advice for fintechs that want to partner with credit unions

Want more lending advice? Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Leaders in Lending in your favorite podcast player.

What we do is we advocate for them, we provide training, products, anything that they need to do that will help them improve their members financial well being an advance of communities they serve. That's really what we try to do. You're listening to leaders and lending from upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve their product offerings. Each week here, decision makers in the finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry best practices around digital transformation. In one let's get into the show. Welcome to leaders and lending. I'm your host, Jeff Keltner. This week we're featuring my conversation with CUNEA's chief advocacy officer, Ryan Donovan. I really enjoyed this conversation with Ryan. We dove into some specific policy proposals, areas of advocacy, areas where they'd like to see change, in areas where they're hoping that the government does not change policy, and Ryan really focused on a couple of key areas that the to the caught my eye were the removing of barriers for helping credit unions better serve their membership and their communities and second expanding opportunity where they could actually move and start serving new communities. That's a really interesting conversation, both from a business point of view and from a policy point of view, and I hope you enjoy it. Ryan, welcome to the PODCAST. I really appreciate your making the time today. Absolute exact thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation. Now, in case some of our listeners are not as familiar with the Qune, can you give us the the quick quick version of who you guys are and what you focus on? Yeah, Crediting National Association, where the largest trade group representing credits in the United States. Are About five thousand credit unions serving than a hundred and twenty million Americans, and really what we do is we advocate for them, we provide training, products, anything that they need to do that will help them improve their members financial well being in advance of communities they serve. That's really what what we try to do and we do that in partnership and cooperation with a network of State Credit Union Leagues and associations. There's representation and every state and and we work together to try to make sure that creditings are...

...able to execute on their mission state organization. That's a lot to manage. Fifty states. Yeah, a lot of each other, any cats, but there are. They really are our essential partners and and actually they founded crediting National Association back in the S. Our membership has developed and changed over the years, but it's I think one of the intricral parts of our success really is that we have that strong network and partnership with the State Association. Okay, you're the chief advocacy officers. So, yeah, I want to talk a little about one of the specific areas of focus that you guys have from advocacy point of view right now. Yeah, so there's a lot to talk about. I mean what our members tell us. They want us to focus on really our four areas. They want us to remove regulatory barriers so they can more efficiently serve their members. They want us to band opportunities and powers so that they can keep up with the trends that are in the banking sector and remain relevant to their members. Want to enhance information security so that members have confidence that when they're dealing with a credit union, their personal information is safe. And, of course, we have a tax status conveyed by Congress because we're not profit more cooperative, and our members want us to keep that so that they can continue to provide those services to their members. I mean that's that's Fiftyzero foot but, like you know, right now in two thousand and twenty one and in the pandemic and everything that's going on, a couple of big issues that were working on. The first has to do with a proposal from the Biden Administration that would require banks, credit unions, really any entity that holds deposits, like Venmo, even starbucks, to report to the IRS on the inflows and outflows going into both and out of those accounts of more than six hundred dollars. So we think this would present a really significant burden on credit unions. But even more importantly, it's really an invasion of consumer personal information. Banks, credit unions, employers, a lot of entities report information to the IRS. Sure, it's all taxable tap. It's all...

...about taxable action, right. So if if you're making money, your employer reports that to the irs so they they can figure out your tax, figure out how much I oh yeah, yeah, and this case what the administrations asking for is how much money is going into an account and how much money is coming out which isn't related to a direct taxable events. We got a lot of concerns about that being an invasion of prize to see increase and regulatory burden. And then, of course you have the federal government holding a considerable new trope of data they are. Yeah, back to your inter the sect point, you know. Yeah, I guess my iphone purchase is going to be would be on the list of things to be reported. Well, it's gross inflows and outflows. But but you're still giving him a lot of data and they don't have a three of really holding that very well. So we're fighting that where we want a first round battle with the healthways and Means Committee, but there's a long way to go. You know, another thing that we're working on that specific to credit is a legislation that would make it easier for credit unions to serve underserved areas of both kinds of providing consumer access to financial services and also increase small business lending. You know, in the last ten years or so we've seen, you know, I think, a net of about seventy eight hundred bank branch closures, and I noticed Richard Hount was on one of your podcasts of a consumer bankers and you know he was I think. I think he was kind of almost proud of the reduction in the bank branch and sort of the fast track to digitalization. But in that same amount of time we've seen credit unions trying to fill that gap. I think opening you on fifteen hundred new branches in that same period, two thousand and four to just think two thousand and twenty. And so what we've got is a bill out there that says if there's an underserved area, if it's a new market, tax credit area, cdfi area or any area that is more than ten miles from a branch of a depository institution, then creditings can add...

...that area to their field of membership so they can serve it and the business loans that they do in those areas wouldn't be subject to our statutory business lending cap. And you know, our view is if banks are moving out of these communities, we want to be there for them. There are too many banking desert says there are. We want to make sure that we can not create any new ones but also work to reduce the number that exists. Those are our you know, two of our you know, sixty or seventy biggest issues right now, only sixty or seventy. Riley, don't have time for all sixty or seven. We're not ward. I love this idea of serving underserved communities. Is that I love understand kind of the motivation but, like it is, is both challenging, I think, operationally credit wise, to get mean the credit decision he becomes more challenging. Figuring out where you can actually extend credit and mourner serve communities is typically it's a risky area in general and you've got to have good analytics, but it's also usually not as profitable. So I'm curious kind of what's driving the credit unions. You're talking to that direction and wanting, wanting to fill that because it's I can understand from business point of view how it's hard to justify and why you can see closures in areas where there's less traffic, less less business and therefore less profitability. Well, I think, Jeff, it starts with of with the crediting mission. You know, and in in our statute, Congress has told us that we are supposed to promote thrift and provide access to credit for provident purposes and we do that through a not for profit cooperative models. So what we are looking at isn't only the bottom line. Obviously we have to remain solvent, we have to operate in a safe and sound manner, but we also have this mission and and for for credits, large and small. That's that's the reason that they exist. They exist to serve their existing members and also to bring the opportunity for savings and the access to credit two folks that may not have it. I love it's it's the same thing that got us into the financial services space. You know, the how do you how do you apply new models to enhancing access to credit, the cost or credit, and it's...

I will say it's one of the things is I've worked with creditings I've really appreciated is the focus on consumers. I mean even just the word member kind of, you know, feels different than consumer, which is what you often hear from otherifies our customer or client or whatever it is. And you know, when you look at the balance sheets, certainly the we didn't, I did not appreciate this when I first gotten the financial services and we were like, I'll they're more assets of the banks. We should work with banks, which I still don't want to disk banks. But if you look at consumer lending, the credit unions are just are just proportionate on how much of their balance she des allocated to various kinds of consumer lending compared to the banks and I'll say punch above their weight class from A, you know, assets on balancey point of view versus a lending point of view to the consumers. Are there issues on the consumer lending side that you hear from your members or are focuses? I know there's kind of ships and product and covid is changed a lot of stuff. Where the what are the trends you're seeing that space? Well, you know, during the initial part of Covid, of course credit uns were pretty active lenders in the paycheck protection program and really trying to work to keep employees connected to their employer. You know they were. They're also working to make sure that folks are able to stay in their homes right. So, if you think about the typical credit union is serving members of all income brackets, but folks that need the most help right now tend to be in the low, in the moderate income areas. Their folks that may be frontline workers, and so I think if there are if there are trends, and particularly trends coming out of Covid it's it's how can we help bridge these folks to the to the end of the health pandemic, but also the end of the economic pandemic, and make sure that they are they continue to operate and what's really becoming a K shaped recovery. You'll see credit unions, I think, looking to make sure that they are, you know, trying to keep do what they can to keep their members out of foreclosure, keep members who maybe rent ers from being evicted as those protections fall on the wayside. You're seeing, I think, some, you know, very much some interest,...

...particular on the policy side, you know, in terms of credit cards and debit cards, and making sure that the systems that support the offering of those cards and certainly the interchange revenue that God is able to continue. So there's a there's a lot going on there and of course we could get into, you know, some of the things they're thinking about from digitalization and trying to anticipate where, remember, they're going to need to be, you know, in two, three five years time. How do you think? I mean, it was interesting that you brought up the addition of branches in underserved communities in recent times, which's not a freekly not a trend I've been aware of and certainly what I hear from everybody is like digitization is coming, we've got to get there fast. How do you see those two trends playing it and where do you see the demand for digital how the credit he is viewing that as a different than what I might see at other financial institutions? Well, I think it's complicated. Right, of course. There we've seen through this pandemic that there's been an acceleration of the deployment of digital technology and the contactless card. I just got, you know, contactless card for my credit union. You know, I use an apple card as well. So I've been, you know, dabbing or you know touching, you know, for a couple of years now and that's become more mainstream and credit eans are are active in that type of deployment. But what we hear from, you know, surveys that we do of consumers, focus groups that we do of consumers, is that throughout all age groups there still is a desire for in a perception of security with the face to face interaction. And you know, one of the things that we had to scramble with, and I think a lot of folks had to scramble with the very first part of the pandemic was the fact that, for public health reasons, branches were closed and we had to figure out how to keep a financial institution open in an environment where that facetoface action was more difficult. You know, another thought on this, and again I don't think it's one or the other, digital or branches, right, but if you think about the demographic that credit unions primarily serve, load to...

...moderate income individuals. You know, we think everybody has a mobile device or computer or access to high speed Internet. It's simply not the case, right. So a rush to digital and sort of mobile banking that is ubiquitous and the and perhaps the only way that one could access it really could end up leaving out a number of that are that are vulnerable. So, you know, I think that plays into a part of it. And then, you know, for credit unions, they have traditionally operated very locally, right, and in more and more communities they are the financial service provider of record in a small town or county. A rural area or, you know, a neighborhood in an urban area and there's a connection there that I that I think is important for the members of the institution to continue to see. Are there areas where you see like it's soon just that kind of Hybrid Natu you talked about, where the nature of in persons important? Are there areas where you do see, you know, where digital is going to be most valuable and maybe not competing with the in person but kind of where it's additive to and kind of you know, yeah, I'm very too well. Yeah, and I think you have to keep in mind that not all digital innovation is something that's going to be member facing right. So there's a number creating that are going on in the in the back office and in the background. We've had a group at that we've organized at KUNA of crediting system leaders that is really tried to figure out what would a road map for the industry look like and how could it help support a Kredit Unions hath in this area. They're really focusing on how credit US might be able to use analytics and artificial intelligence, particularly in in underwriting, how we can use sort of a digital approach to empower employees. You know, one of the things that credit unions do, I think, pretty well, is try to tailor products to the needs of their members. So it's not, you know, if you don't fit all the criteria and a box, than the answers know, we try to get to yes, and so how can you use sort of digital technology to get...

...to to yes? And that helps, of course, to deepen the relationship with members and then also looking at ways to optimize operations. You know, I think that's where there's Big Bang for the buck from a credit in perspective. So those are some of the big themes that that they're they're addressing and how I, you know, can sort of see it playing out. I'm kind of curious. You hit on something near and dear obviously to our hearts and the use of AI and M Ol, particularly in credit underwriting, but I think in lots of areas within any FI. I know the banking regulators put out a joint statement. There's kind of everybody's trying to better understand what this means, how you think about it, how it fits into, you know, third party governance or model governance frameworks or or kind of historical regulation are there things you're seeing motion motions from the regulators around understanding this in the credit union space, or the things you think they could or should be doing, or we could or should be doing to help them understand the potential and give I think clarity is the thing I hear most in terms of how oversight needs to work and these kind of models, because they're the regulations weren't really written with this kind of concept in mind. You've answered your own question. You know, if they're going to regulate in this area, then there needs to be clear guidance. We need to have well developed, acceptable definitions of what we're talking about when we talk about artificial intelligence or machine learning. And then, I think the other thing is, you know, they're I think the regulators need to avoid disrupting the operation of the credit UN so we have ai and ml are tools to try to get to an outcome avoid disrupting the the other step or overregulating or having redundant regulation, you know, to the other steps of that of that process. Those would be, you know, again, I think every is trying to get their hands around it, but it starts with some really guidance from the regulator, regulators and they ought not to be operating simply in a vacuum or on an island, if you will. Engaging with fintext sector, engaging with Fi's. I think it's really critical to come to the those common, unaccepted definitions, and we're fingers cross so...

...we see motion on that front. I think that would fall into your removing barriers category of your kind of for high level things your members want. Yes, I took notes, I I remember what she said. It's not removing barriers, it's certainly keeping new barriers from keeping your briers. What are the other kinds of barriers? You're so kind of go back to your for at least the first two? What other kinds of barriers that your focus on removing or that you think are hindering the ability of Kredit used to serve their yeah better? Well, you know, here's a here's the thing. I think I you know, just for your listeners, creditings are regulated primarily at the federal level by the National Credit Indian administration, which is our safety and sound this regulator, are sure, and then, of course, the consumer financial protection euro you know, one of the things that we're concerned about at NCUA is that the chairman. Their Chairman Harper, would like to increase the normal operating level of the assurance fund. Basically what that means is he wants to have the Insurance Fund to hold more Credit Union member deposits to provide, you know, a buffer between the fund than the insurance and the and the tax pair. Fair enough, Congress is said that buffer should be around one point three percent of insured shares. He wants to take it, I think, north of one point five, closer to probably two point Oh, sort of in the same direction. F The FDIC funds headed. We don't think that that's necessary. You know, here's the deal. The Credit Union Fund has remained solvent from it's from its start, even during the financial crisis. It didn't go into insolvency. Its remains solvent and so we think there's a good balance there. So scerned about that because if you if you require more money to be reserved, that's less money that credit unions have to help their members to lend. That's one high level concern there. You know, also at the agency, though, we've learned some things during this pandemic and one of the things that we've learned is that they don't have all the tools they need to help credit unions through crisises. So Credit Unians went into the pandemic very well capitalized. Average capital ratio was, you know, close to eleven percent,...

...if I recall correctly. Of course, you know, with the government assistance and action in lending, you know, we've seen a lot of change in credit balance sheets. At capital level is gone down and some otherwise healthy credit unions have approached levels that, you know, seven percent is our is our very well capitalized level. Watching seven percent. If they get below six incays got to take prompt corrective action. Think the agency should have some tools in its toolbox that allow it to work with creditings on an individual basis so that they don't have to take PCA steps simply because there is, you know, national or global crisis or even a local natural disaster impact balance sheet. So we're trying to work with the agency to ask Congress for that authority at the CFPB. Asked name two and then you picked on one of them. I was going to ask about the the CFP actors us a regular I'm most familiar with. Yeah, I mean, I think the most discinct way is we'd like to see nothing change, but we know that going to happen. We've got roheat Chopra, who is about to get confirmed by the US Senate, and once he's in office I expect that the bureau is going to take some pretty aggressive regulatory action. Our concern is mostly on the rule making side because in Cua supervisors most credit unions for compliance with consumer protection regulation. So the rules matter for us and you know, the rules also frustrate us because I can't think of a single rule that the CFPP has ever written or changed that has been done because there has been bad activity in the credit union system. So every time there's a change we've got to change how we're doing. We got to spend money on complying with the regulation, updating our process, he's training staff, etc. And it's all because somebody else was engaged in some activity that promptted a rule change. It Robs Credit Union members of money...

...that could go to you used to better serve them, and so we're sort of girding for a lot of frustration in the next several years and will be very actively engaging the bureau to try to keep things as close to the same as they are right now as possible. The second guys told me close to the same as what they want out of the bureau. So it's a weird time and I do think it's an interesting point you raised, because it's easy to forget the costs of compliance with rules that seem common sense. You can say, well, that's a reasonable rule in then you well the the cost of actually training staff, updating systems may be. Collecting information, reporting information, is not trivial and it really imposes a burden on those who have to who have to, you know, comply, even if it even if they're not breaking the rule in the first place. Yeah, and then they're the unintended consequences. And I'll just give you one example. As you know, the cfpbs remittance rule. You know, I'm sure that there was a strong argument to be made that there were, that there needed to be new rules written around international remittances. I think that God Frank Act might have required or at least pointed the bureau in the direction of updating those rules. Impact of what the CFPB did was to say what the impact was. It drove half the credit unions either out of the market of international remittances or reducing their offerings to stay below a very, very low threshold, and so what that meant was you had entities that weren't causing a problem, that we're actually serving folks and offering good and safe products, who exited the market and sent those consumers to the entities that were causing the problem. Now they have to operate now under a new rule, sure, but you took the good guys out of the market. And you know that is the real rub with the bureau is oftentimes they have one size fits all regulation and the impact on small providers,...

...whether it's a small credit in inn or a community bank, can be just simply getting out of that market and that's to the disservice of consumers. That's not consumer protection. Interesting and now your your other area of your top for you, a secondary was expanding opportunity. We talked about, you know, the ability to go into underserve markets open branches where there wasn't local FIS, which I thought was a really interesting concept in and an idea that you guys can bring credit us into underserve markets in a way that, you know, expending their field of membership and roving certain statutory caps on and track. Are there other kinds of expansion of opportunity that, either from the policy point of view or just generally, you're hearing that credit he's are looking at right now. Yeah, you know one that comes to mind and I think just for contact that say, you know, the Federal Crediting Act is very prescriptive and restrictive. Right so, for it provides, you know, a very limited amount of powers that credit uns can do and it has a list of folks of things that credit uns you know. One of the areas that is restrictive is the maturity limit of loans that aren't mortgages and a crediting act limits federal credit uns to a fifteen year maturity limit and that has an impact. And also sorts of loans, including some commercial loans, student loans and others. Every every state charter in the country except for, I think, Oklahoma, has a more permissive maturity. I'm not even aware that there's a, if there's a maturity limit in any of the relevant banking statutes the so one of the things that we're also asking Congress is to, you know, give the regulator some flexibility and sort of setting whatever should be an upper limit on maturity length limit for a loan. So you know, that's one example, but I think broadly there are a number of areas where over the years, Congress is written at very specifically or at or prescriptively that we're looking at. You know, okay, we're in the twenty one century now. We have a...

...well established regulator or regulated also for Consumer Protection. Perhaps the law could be a little bit more general to provide the regulator of the tool that needs to regulate the activity at it. I like it. That's it. I did not. I was not aware of that. See, I'm I'm learning here on the podcast myself as my favorite part. And then one other area I wanted to touch on was, you know, obviously up starts in the business of partnering with F fies. I know that the topic fintech partnerships has kind of top of mine for many in the in the in the industry. What are you hearing from this? You know, strategically, how your you know your members are thinking about that and and what's your advice for, you know, tech players are fed, tech players that are interesting in partnering with Credit Unions and and how we can be better partners or make that process easier for for your members. Yeah, now my advice for for fintech is don't sleep on credit unions. I think that, you know, it is just a you know, sort of inherent in the Credit Union model that we are cooperative and we are collaborative. Certainly that's the case within the system, but there's also a number of examples of that taking place outside of the system. Some and I'll mention a couple of really big ones. I mean you have nationwide system of shared branching that's been in existence for decades run by CO OP financial services, and you know that's gives credit in your members the ability to access their account wherever they are in the country. It's an awesome example of not just cooperation but really early days digitalization and and FINTECH application. Similarly, you've got Quso's, like see you direct, that help credit unds collaborate with auto dealers to do and direct auto lending, and even some credits are working with Google on the application of Google pay and access to deposit accounts. So I think, yeah, there's and and there are many other examples, I'm sure. The point is there are their credit unions out there and I think most of them would say their way to go about digitalization and remain relevant is through...

...partnership with Fintech. I think where we would have some concern, just on the policy area is, you know, we what we want to avoid is sort of a rent a charter situation where Finn is using a credit in your bank to try to circumvent regulation or regulatory framework. You know, from an advocacy perspective, where I put a lot of my focus, that's our concern. But from an operations perspective, what I hear from Credit Union leaders is there great eagerness and appetite partner with Fintech and to find ways to do more. Well, I Will Echo Ryan centim for any FINTECH executives listening. That the I think. I think we underlooked the credit union market for a while to our detriment and of realized the opportunity and partner with credit unions. Jeff, one of the one of the things that I just noticed. You know, perhaps one of the obstacles might be knowing how to engage the system. Just offer crediting National Association can contact me. I'll do what I can to help put folks in touch with people that are interested in this and we'd love to facilitate the conversation that is that would be great. So what? I'm sure we'll have some people take you up on that. Yeah, I think I think you're totally right about where. This isn't an they're in a charter. Comment is interesting because I think it's interesting to me, to me that Fintech partnerships are seen as so new when, practically speaking, almost all the technology in place at credit unions or banks is not built in house. It's like, you know, there's there's established technology, you players in the FI space and and now we think Finn Tech Partners is is is new. Who Do you think Jack Henry is? It is a technology company that sells technology to or so many. You can't have a nationwide shared branching that work if you don't have some sort of technology behind that. So and that's for years. So I think it's new, but it's also kind of, in many ways, the the oldest version of the technology partnership with banks. Ryan, before we wrap up, is there anything you expected to ask, wanted me...

...to ask that I didn't get to the topics you think we should have hit on that I missed. No, this is great. I really appreciate you having me on the show. I've listened to a couple of the PODCASTS and I think I'll probably be a more regular listener, listener going forward. So excellent. Much for that. Yeah, well, if you're if you're a regular listener or you've listened to a few, then you know that I always end with three questions. Okay, Oh, you didn't listen to the NAA. Careful then. I did put these on the sheet essentials. You're going to have to fire them off to fly. Okay, but the kind of rapid fire day. But what's the best piece of career advice you've gotten? Ask for forgiveness, not for permission. Ask for forgiveness, not for who he's now in. The only thing I'll add to that as you got to mean it. People tell you that in certain companies, they say he's a place you should ask for forgiven us in that permission that, it turns out you definitely should, as I think the corellery that is build a build a company that appreciates people who ask for forgiveness and not for permission. I like that one. What's the best piece of advice about consumer banking or consumer lending? You've got the best piece of advice about consumer banking or consumer lending that I have received or given. If you more good that? Well, was, of course, go to a crediting you. That's Soh I started my financial journey to crediting. His true go to crediting. All right, well, it will accept that answer. It's well played. Well played, sir. And then my last question is, what's a bold prediction for the future? Doesn't have to be government of policy related, though it can be. But what's a bold prediction for the future? Bold prediction for the future is, though I can bring you back in a, you know, year something and tell you if you are right or wrong and pick on you for it or congratulate you. I think that at some point in the future, and this maybe ten, fifteen years down the road, that the CFPB will be a multi member by partisan commission, as was originally proposed by Monck Obama. The form is that. Is that a prediction or a hope? Well, it's both, but I think that all right. CEFPP moving to a multi member commission instead of a Singular Director a nice bowl prediction. That one's very clear. Well, it won't be difficult to tell if you're right or wrong. We just maybe the time horizons. The question all, Ryan, I...

...appreciate your joining us today. Thanks so much. That a fascinating conversation. Paisa, thanks for thanks. Up Start Partners with banks and credit unions to help grow their consumer loan port folios and deliver a modern, all digital lending experience. As the average consumer becomes more digitally savvy, it only makes sense that their bank does too. Up Starts AI landing platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to more accurately identify risk and approve more applicants than traditional credit models. With fraud rates near zero, upstarts all digital experience reduces manual processing for banks and offers a simple and convenient experience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal and auto lenning programs or you're just getting started, upstart can help. Upstart offers an into in solution that can help you find more credit worthy borrowers within your risk profile, with all digital underwriting, onboarding, loan closing and servicing. It's all possible with upstart in your corner. Learn more about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process and growing your business by visiting upstartcom Ford banks that's upstartcom Ford Banks, you've been listening to leaders and lending from upstart. Make sure you never miss an episode. Subscribe to leaders and lending in your favorite podcast player using apple podcast. Leave us a quick rating by tapping the number of stars you think the show deserves. Thanks for listening. Until next time. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests on the leaders and lending podcast are their own and their participation in this podcast does not imply an endorsement of such views by their organization or themselves. The content provided is for informational purposes only and the discussion between the host and guests should not be taken as financial advice by companies or individuals.

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