Leaders in Lending
Leaders in Lending

Episode · 3 months ago

Fast, Easy, Simple: Improving Customer Experience in a Digital World

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When it comes to the future of banking, the best service may be no service at all. In other words, the best service may be self-service.


Mark Pregmon, GM of Consumer Lending Line of Business at USAA, joins the show today to share his thoughts on why building things digitally requires a different way of thinking and why making processes fast, easy, and simple is the key to customer satisfaction.

At USAA, Mark is responsible for credit underwriting, core servicing, and default management for consumer lending products. USAA has been serving military families since 1922. The company’s goal is to be the military community’s provider of choice for insurance, banking, and financial products.

We discuss:

- Maintaining focus on the quality of digital experiences

- Meeting customer needs in a digital environment

- Trends in consumer lending products

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If you build things digitally- and it'sjust a whole different way of thinking, make it fast as simple be there whenthey need you, you are listening to leaders andlending from upstart a podcast dedicated to helping consumer Linders,grow their programs and improve their product offerings each week. Herdecision makers in the finance industry offer insights into the future of thelending industry best practices around digital transformation in one let's getinto the show. Welcome to leaders in lending I'm yourhost, Jeff Keltner, this week's episode features a conversation with markpregnant mark is a general manager of consumer lending line of business at usa a and a long time. USA, a member, I think, it's a fascinating discussionabout USA's approach to relationships with their what they call members theircustomers, how they do that marks real focus of the phrase fast, easy simplecomes up throughout the conversation and I think they're focus on keepingthe customer the center of the conversation, what they call in themiddle of the room through things like mission moments and how they iteratequickly on providing a fast, easy, simple, convenient experience acrossall the products is a really great great example of what many lenders andbankers need to be thinking about and heading towards, and I think he's gotlittered throughout the conversation. Lots of great advices and tid bits onhow to achieve that within your own institution. So not further. Do pleaseenjoy the conversation mark, welcome to the podcast and thanks so much forjoiners. Today. I really appreciate your making the time I you know I'vebeen a USA, a customer for years, at least on the insurance sign. So I wasexcited to have this conversation and we were talking earlier, and I told you,you know the two things I think about when I think of us: A A R O, obviouslythe focus on supporting service members, which is fabulous and then the kind ofoutlier nature of your general net promoter score that you seem to havefound a way in the financial services industry to achieve a level of customersatisfaction. That is uncommon among many of the larger institutions in mostbanks. I'd love to get your thoughts on that a little bit, because I think it'sit's fascinating. It's something everybody's trying to do, particularlyas we think about how you manage that in a digital world, a branches or nobranches and human interaction versus pure digital, like how you guys thinkyou do that, because it's a pretty remarkable achievement. Quite frankly,thank you man. I've been, I us say, member myself for over thirty years,and so I got it through my dad ter in the military n circa come o the samefor me and are reason why it attracts me here, because I've been a member ofthat line, but in banking that exacts I started my first job. I got myinsurance on my car and I began to never my Tasse you're going to get yousae. It was no Afanoo but you're going to get you yeah and I got to and I'vebeen a member ever since, and when I've been. Thank you for that. When I leftmy recent bank to come here was a lot. The mission is what really attracted mehere and being a member and just the service that's provided over the yearshave I received, and I think a lot of it has to do to is- is that we'refirmly grounded, whether it's the insurance side of the company, a Mecash,the banking side, for we graded who we serve and why we call members versuscustomers, because they are part owners of the company, and I look at it andit's a big difference. Then I had I had a or worry at myself how I think I haveone bank, you call a client on think you call it customer an ouse member andit is a difference. It's a huge difference. I think the big thing everytime we start a meeting when is a broadly like whether it's like you onan update or whatever the C is, or that day I'm givin up to ICTO. My Jean. Wealways start with a mission moment and we'll leave a cool of phone call wherewe s that member or will pull something just remind them, what we do and why wedo it, and there at these are just really heartfelt things. I mean I'lleven get an experience on my own. I called my mission moment. It reallywasn't in my daughter. She got her car insurance and she's a white college,and I never forget it was Valentine's a couple years ago and my wife says:You're not going to bring yourself home and to eat dinner. I said okay, so,like my cell phone in the car yeah have her dinner. Come back. I open up myphone, like my daughter's called USA's call, and this is like nine o'clock atnight, something's wrong. Okay, yeah! I...

...just cut read that and for some of thereason I think I hit us to hit my daughter's number or get on the phone,and the agent picks up a call Sary that picks it up on the shot that she washis firas watching. Now that your daughter is okay, she's been involvedwith a fender bender and we were going trying to get a hold of you. She wantsto talk to you, but then she could get a whole new. You told her calling us ifyou're ever an an accent she did and they stay on the line with her untilthey got a hold of me for thirty minutes really yeah, Oh yeah,unbelievable, I mean still, I I'll never leave, because of that. I'm amember for, like my wife, my daughter, remember that my wife remembers thatit's like sure she was on the call with her the whole time and while the policegot there, she want make sure she was causse was the major accept. But yes,she was shook up and it was you know, so we had a scary thing, she's awaycollege and so and that just everything we start with that mission moment, andI think other thing too is being and banking. You know we don't havebranches for day. Branches is realis online of digital, but I think itbranches put in Tegea. I played that thosetimes pretious, two bags that hadbranches and the biggest thing are. We always would hear about customerscoming into ranch in their royalty and their service factor was. The tenurewas the turnover the Turnin o over and so branch turnover a lot right and thatthat's type every time we saw turnover, you saw attrition rates in customersright or type of thanks right or satisfaction go down. The tenure hereof the employees is huge. I mean it's like twenty three years experience, sowhen you have that type of tenure and that retention, I think, there's adirect corelation between tenure and retention and also the skills go onright, because you've been perfecting your role in your job or whatever, andthe thanks ban investing you, the company, invest in you and you become.I think you serve that member better, that customer better hm that type ofpretension it it's off the charts here, but yeah what attractive. I love thatmentality and the word member is interesting because you do use it. Youdo see it when you call in they. What's your member number and that's it? Is itfeels almost like a credit union in some ways where they have the similarkind of terminology and the focus on consumers? And I love them the missionmoments. We actually do something similar where we every week at our allhands. We read a Barrow Review, an online review from from a customer andwhat they were doing with the money or why they needed just something. Youknow just kind of reconnects you to the mission that we're here to help not towin a financial game or make a spreadsheet look better, but to helpthese individuals who need service yeah, I think that's, that's a huge thing.That's for exactly right! Now! Remember it's in it's a big deal, so I remembermy of another dog, I'm not the one that got the defender be base in school inNew York. She got a first, she moved out of the door and got a firstapartment. Well, of course, we got to Reno and shirts. Forget her. USAmembership package came in the mail and it was a big deal was like it was a bigdeal me to sit there. Look at your you know: She's, like Oh, my God, open itup. You know had to welcome to USA a the whole thing, and- and so it's justthat that whole piece is just that that member it's a different way of. Thankyou, because when I came from other banks, it was hey. You know: How do yousave money? You know sometimes it's like you know. How do you do this? Thishere is like hey. How do you improve the experience? It really isn't aboutthat. It's really more because I thought hey. We want wait times to gofor ten seconds to twenty seconds. We could save a couple more milliondollars. If you think about that here. It's got that way. It's like it's that!No, it's like. What can you do to improve it and it's a just a differentand of thinking of it not having to do it in the you know the traditional waywhere I've come from in the past interesting? How do you think theorganization achieves that kind of goal? I mean, I think it's so oftenparticulars organizations get larger the focus on a pan. L or cutting costsor improving the bottom line kind of shifts the objectives that ever youknow you get get your incentives, aligned, improving the profit margin orsomething like this, and that's when let's cut the call center staff orautomate this thing that we can automate. That lowers a customerexperience. How do you maintain as the company grows and you have moremanagers and more people making decisions that focus on quality andexperience versus managing to a bottom line, expectation or something that canreally can be counter each other do two years. This is two years here. Gan saymy hat. My personal pain, I think, were...

...privately held, not publicly traded,HMM. So when you're trying to maxim as well to the shareholder, it's about didthe ends, is those type of things right and that type of stuff, and so here'show to throw when I learned school out like tax as well to Charles, isdifferent their members, and so it's like. What can we do to give back toour members now ye back? So I your Ustad, your SA member and so last yearas everybody with Cobi claims you down, because because people were giving aright, so I got the joke by it. I'm going to. I don't sure I got prefeturepack, because mens were down. I'm sure you got the same. I did yeah so I meanthat's so that's different. So that's your dividend and a different way ofbeing a shareholder, and so that's a get back, whether I do it lone pricing,we do it in the member experience, there's a lot of different ways thatcan manifest itself and that's the beauty of it. That's why I like it here.It's just a different way of doing it because we're always you know whenyou're cut, when you're privately hell versus publy trick you're trying tomaxos watch the Sherborn. It's like you've got a little bit more to pivitaround and you got little. I call like playing twister. You know you go okay,we that, but you can't do this, and so like you now I don't have it's just adifferent dynamic been putting the member first, a rullion. Can It's a lotof? How do you think about? I mean, I think you guys in many ways I meannever, my Understan is there haven't really been any large number ofbranches like a handful here and there, but historically there aren't branchesfor USA, which is kind of seems, like everybody else is heading for a longtime. You know branches were like your mote, and now they seem to be in someways. People feel like they're the anchor from a cost point of you, atleast in a being reduced, and I think every all the all the bankers I talkedare doing. How do I maintain connection with my client? How do I bring thethings that people enjoyed in the branch into a digital whelm? How do youguys think about them? MEU? I feel like you're a little bit living in thefuture that everybody's running towards, and so I'm curious what advice you havefor those who are you know in the world where they relied on branches? Maybe,for you know, for selling C clients product as the needed on fork,maintaining relationship, and you guys have done it without. So what do youthink you've learned along the way that that others could could benefit fromabout how to do that? I think the whole thing is wrong. It's around convenienceto the Fast Sec, simple. I think when you think branches, I got to open it. Igot close or in class on Sunday and they open US Sunthin, and I think ifyou build things digitally and it's just a whole different way of thinking,make it fast as e simple be there when they need you right, you can call andget online. I think, build your products for their sales and service,but the fastest and quickest channel, which is digital com online, thosetypic mobile. I think you at that's the game time to win and I know thebackstroke okay, I got to be in certain Marcus those type of things you keepbuilding thou branches, so you think about it and I world lit so you talkingabout when you're talking about when you thinking globally. The branch thenconcept. Just you know it's just not as important and I think also to be makeit Fassy Supari. I Man Music, that sang out of mouth of baby her. I think thatsame Gil, that's going to school in New York, Getting Ready to go, get anexample. I like a good banker. I took her into the local branch to get her achecking account right. So we go in there she's, you know signing papersopen it for checking account gets a card and she the whole time she had.There opened up her online and everything else get in the car and I go.I go lies it at what you think she goes. I know you work here. I don't want tohurt your feelings and I know what do you mean? She goes she's process s, nota paper. Why don't you come in just like a can. I just do this all onlineyeah and it's like she is kind of Cuigy Dat, and this is a seventeen year old and we think me that's how I think.That's how I grew up yeah. I think that's, I'm a bank on top of us. Wetend to think that way right and like a good dad, take you into the branch- andI I was mixing. This is like a seminal moment in life right, an get to getyour first yeah go in school and Dad. This is Kluger the sin O body ligature.I don't buy siate banker like you know this t they don't want togo on, they wont do it from their home.

They want to do it. Yeah, I think evenmore so is coved is done. All that too I mean yeah travel west that they don'twant to go places I want to it just now. You can get your groceries even right,total, I a great to win ice. I buy my wine I haven't delivered put in theback of my car because, because that the stores are messed go ahead, I buymore things, but I don't probably don't feed right. So it's like I've changedthe way. I've I by my wine. Now I mean: Do you see any any interesting trendsin the usage of the call center? I I feel like there there's this kind of aset of things I want to do where I don't want to talk to. Somebody likedepositing a check is a great example like I am going to walk into a branchdeposit, a check I just wanted to like have the money available. My count bedone mobile, the pauses great. There are other things like retirementplanning. What what do I invest in you know? What kind of loan do I need tobuy a home or buy a car? What, where I kind of feel like I need some help,because I don't I'm not an expert. I I want to talk to somebody to walk methrough how to think about it. How do you think about where that fits or orI'm assuming you guys do that through Mostly Call Center interactions? Buthow do you think about optimizing that that experience, because there aretimes when I do- want a human to turn? I want to talk to somebody. You Avethat right, if chat hers, can you could do texts and stuff like that? The Way Ithink of it is is that I'm trying to build out the things that were buildingis what I call start anywhere finish anywhere start on your phone, your mobile right.You can start on yourself an application, but then there's a button,click the call put that, and so you could finish it on the phone if youwant to and then go back to digital, so I think it's like you got to beambivalent towards you, make it fast, easy that member and where theydistarbin re Fishier, they want to start with a voice. I said a couplequestion Becau, then I'm on go on line a finish up my application and make itreally, I think, were exact, collected whether it's servant. You know on thesale phone could be in the service that we did. A piece with the coved was isthat we did the function where you can go on and you can. I shows it on yourmobile, Hey, you have a payment due and you can you need help and it's like yougo. You go right on your phone. You don't have to call anybody right. Youor I you one call you like the call. You know it would connect you O in it.Yo, look up the phone number and make a call and wait on hold and look it up.We just you hit the button that copy you ride it. You get. You get directlyright to the right person yeah, that convenience is huge and in a littletechnology things like recognizing the phone number and pulling up the membersrecords. When you call- and I think those things to your point fast essimble make sec phone call more convenient less. You always annoyedwhen you call in like I need to ask you. Twelve questions to you know, gothrough a touch menu and it takes ten minutes. Just to get a hold of theperson, I don't want to do that, so I I think I was. I always thought you knowhow many clicks you got to do right. It's like how many times you got towalk around the fall, how many bucks going to walk every click? You haveit's like every block you have towards that back branches, so you try to nipthose type of things and and then I think the other piece that was donereally well. Here is what Cole caught like you call it, member of pain,points or complaints, and sometimes it may not be even complaints. It may justbe wire members, colonus Wat's supposed the Mala things are called about, heycheck it on my lone sess, so I'm I want to know what so, why don't? I have apizza tracker kind of a lot of Pie. Do like the figure out where the theirloan is in the hopper more where's, my title: It may not be a complaint, butit maybe it isn't. Maybe it's not. If that's the so then how do I make a tour?They can self serve online and maybe that even take the complaint, but justreally focus on that book- that member of the third of the room and then lookat. Why are they calling you why the contact you? How do we turn thatinteraction? So it gives you the billy. If you don't want to call you can selfserve, you know that's, and I think the best service is no stars self service.You got lots of little tippets here mark, but that service is no serviceand I love this was a really interesting. Come made that the clicksor like blocks to the branch, like every click you put is like the blockthe range and we used to. You are right. We just want to have density no, nomore than so far to a branch, and it's like it should be no more than so.Somebody clicks to a to a piece of information or something you want to doso. I do want to shift a little bit and talk about the consumer lendinglandscape. In particular, I know you're, the the GM of consumer Lenis feels likea good conversation, and I guess my first question is: What do you see interms of the product mix or shifts in...

...the product mix, for what consumers arelooking for? Is that I know how how they're asking for in terms of digitalversus branch is changing, but are the kinds of products or their trends yousee in what's happening in terms of the actual products at the consumers arelooking for and needing yeah. I see a shift away. It became what I call morepurpose driven, which is what we should be. We were bankers. We think Carlo thecome Meco, we think unsecure credit card when really I've seen the shifttowards away from home. Mac Word, I think, also just because of the thebales and the homes and as just a to sixe, seven crisis andstuff. When things went down, people don't want to put their home in thelife, so this that's changed to, but I think it's more and I think it becauseof these FIS out there and those aggravates that they don't have aballancy. If you look at it, it's really unsecured is the growth inbecause there's this more purpose drive and there's comes out in a day that,basically, what you're hurt. I want to buy a car, okay, Matan security, onthat the price is different. I want to put set O my kid to college, and so weis a banker we think. Oh, you got to get a student low right, maybe so insecure, because the need is just short term kind of the thing right, so Ithink it's more getting more purposed through than and more insecure, becauseyou don't have to worry about when you be on the back car but you're good fortwenty sand. You want to buy a car. Hey insecure, is a acomat quicker to make alot of you right, and so consumers are thinking that way too as well. I thinkthat's the changing prevenance away from that. I'm they get this somtingget this specific coming in I'm going to ask for an auto right kind of athing. I think that an interesting. How do you change the way you interact withthem that they're coming in that way, I mean obviously having an insecureproduct which to be fair, most most institutions either don't have- or Ialways describe it as like- There's a piece of paper somewhere in the backcloset of the branch like you have, but nobody nobody's been historically doingit, but if people are really coming in purpose, driven without a need forproduct, is there a different way you interact with them to help them findyou know? Do I want to get an out alone? Do I want to get a he lock do I youknow I need twenty grand for a HVAC. Do I do I do a Helo? Do I do a Stalta loan?Do I get like a second mortgage that I you know that I take out like a cashout re fi like how do you think about guiding that number to the rightultimate place when they're coming in more purpose, driven and less productdriven e h? I think it all comes down to it's just asking a lot of questionson what to try to accomplish and and then doing a sidebyside comparisonbecause of like they just kind of say. I wanted to do this one thing and Hvacon secure, maybe the way to go, but you find out in that conversation, do youwant to anything else? I drop a pole in the back yard. Okay, then, maybe homebackadana way to go that was so meque. Now you can get that or unsecured Imean so it just depends on really the purpose. I think that thou ask me toabout the other trend. I see I had my notes here, but I grew up on the dealerside deal it out, Lindler and paper, and I for play and all the type ofthings. What we're seeing now is a change even even now, like you got thewhole Tesla right. If that's a chain were the they're going around thedealer and we're seeing this more direct a consumer push a ever saw, Ialways thought dealer deal or dealer because that's the way I grew up. Ikept my teeth in the business but were saved even now in the demographics.When you look at what consumers are looking for, they want that carbonateexperience. They don't want to have to leave their house, they don't you know,and dealers are doing their their adapting that but were as obviously adirect land or at US AA, so it. But we fun, though the dealer like we remember,comes in. We like get the check and the go in that way, but that that's justreally the buying process, and so that we're seeing that's changing. And if Iask my kids, my two daughters are in college one in Grad School. They don'twant to walk into a car do and they rather go direct yeah. I will say Imean I'm somewhere, but I'm not as young as your kids, but I certainlywhen I go to GM side or Chevy side or whatever site I like build and proprice you get a price like well where's the purchase button, and it's like. OhNo. Let me send you to somebody in town that you can go time like no. I justlike I the tale franchise laws out there so go.They all have to go through thanks, Goss, that local dealer I mean anseeing like there's some out there like like oval or looking at changing thatmole. You've seen some out there trying...

...to that dried, and I think it was Ithink, as to as the electric cars come up an. I think it's going to changemore over time to as well yeah. How do you guys think about driving? You knowinterest, or at least I want a driving. Maybe is the wrong word, but you, thechallenge I hear about from lenders in the context of direct auto lending isthe either the they don't come to me right. Like I don't. When I want a carI go to find the car. I don't go to find the loan first right so either Inever come to the bank to get the long cause. I go to the dealer and then Imade an offer crit and I don't I don't think to call my institution or maybeI'm one of the few that does go. I say you s a like: What can I get it to buya car and then I go to the deal in the deals like wow on Jeff I mean we've gota better deal for you here we work with the bank down the street. Here's abetter offer. How do you guys think about actually getting in front of theconsumer at the right time to help them with the direct long s? I feel likeevery lender I talk to is like I can grow my indirect book, but it kind oflike it doesn't make me much money in them. The members are re, LARN loyaland it's kind of a mess, and I, like I, love my direct business but like Ican't make it grow, it's always small and I can't get enough of it when weget flipped at the dealer. So I'm curious, you guys have been a littlemore successful in that space. How do you think about you know getting infront of the consumer at that right moment and getting the stickiness forthe loan offer in context? Mote always do their job, I think to be. I just gotto be a strong value proposition here and I will tell you the loyalty ofmembers here that are just loyal and they're. Just like I don't at UN tostand what you are saying so they'll go into that the deal will try to flipthem and that's pretty pretty difficult and Ye of course, so right and they dothat. But then the moners is like: No, I'm not going to go now. It does happen.You know, and you got a girl, but it's that value proper iconian there'ssomething there. If we can make that transaction fast, easy, simple rightmake sure that we do get a competitive right. That's could be another thingtoo, because no cool, yeah and so and we're just trying to innovate our wayswe can even just make it simpler to continue to just drive thatsimplification quates like like it's. We were to lock them up even for theleft, their house. You know it's like that and make it really really easy, soere that you always be have a chance to flip in them. You know that's whyCardio as Tickni thirty years ago, you know put him in the car as fast as youcan, because if even before they get face ever like the make of the old days,it was like how to get them a creed first, and then they walk into theirbrands. To Take it. The deal like Hey, I could capitalize that mixes will puthim in the car because if they drive home in their own car and they gothey're going to go past, another shelly dealer and find a nicer colorand a better price right. So Ye can so I think the goal is as quickly as wecan. Whether shopping piece provide them to shop through us to look atwe're. Looking at a buying service kind of a thing, we thereas a lot of just, Ithink, of just innovative ways now to think to capture a front, the top ofthe funnel when, when they're baby checking on this chicken. On that I doseen technology now, we don't have it here about seeing techno now where, ifwith their idea on their phone, if they've got your at there, you know, dous a yeah, the other bank Xyz Bank, APP on the phone and they walk on to a cardealership. We know that and we send of a cone offer before the testator whenthey walk on it. I mean I've seen that technology out there yeah. That makes atime I've been. I've actually been curious if that's out there, because itseems like a natural thing for the lender to you: Fronto the consumer. Atthat moment, yeah you're, going to Home Depot, don't forget about your creditcard. You know, I'm like get off front, O your credit card. You would tie in toHell Depot. You get you for that time, a doll, a pub E, those type of thatthere's just a lot to think about it that it's just there's so many ways toinnovate out there. You know, I think we're going to have to get Poresta likethat. The banks will have to get that way. You have to push push theboundaries a show. You mention this question in the list, but I'm curious,it seems, like you, guys, invest quite a bit in the technology side, but ifyou had ten the budget that you actually have, what would you do withthe increase? Where would you where? Would you put it that you think wouldbe the the most bank in the buck yeah so continue on that? I call thatinnovation jury. How you like, I said good best service is no service it justhow do you make that the whole process, when you get alone, you service aloneor maybe when you're in the collection park end of the loan? Is You make thatas easy as poise, continue to digitize and make it temple? And this is justthose that's those type of things where...

...you can turn those transactions in theSelf Service Fortunate? I don't have to worry about invested in breaking mortarright, it's like, but but if the ten would be, if they're,faster, hmm right this, like a cop, what's that capacity for change right,you can only do twenty things. Five things were all free things really well.So how do we so take that? And how do I open up my band with they chorasin? Youknow whether it's people process techno and then start testing learning thosedifferent things and bring in a market quicker. You know just like be likejust all PUTITA market faster that I stall something did we get. We thoughtwe'd get to. We realize the benefit not install and stalls like ye check thebox when he did that thing where realization metrics, are you look atwhat you an fell? You say I thought I was going to reduce my psycho time by X,hours X, minutes, Exta that I get that now. I did. Why didn't I get that moreand Lilith feeds back in redetermine and then continue to test amount oftestament, so you just lean that process out improve that process.That's what I would do that to next I'll, be honest mark you guys you soundlike a tech company to me like it's the way any any Silicon Valley Companythinks around consumer experience, measuring where the friction points arereducing it. Looking at not just launching a product but thin going. Canwe launch this feature, but like did it do the thing from a business point ofview that it's supposed to do? If not, why not? If so, can we build on it inthat iterative cycle and speed, dicyclotherian critical, because you'reput it's a learning cycle, the faster you learn the faster you deploy it'slike compound interest. It grows amazingly quickly if you can actuallyexecute it at a degree of speed like we talked about that member focus and thatput him in the middle of the room. That's that's critical. That's key, andit's always been that way and then because we don't have ranches, that'swe've got to do that right. If you can to do that, and people do business withpeople and it's and it's more, you can- and I think personalization of thatpiece to know who you are when you're doing that piece. Even if don't allright. The last thing I would be asked is like I just applied for alone, andthen I come in night days later and you ask me my name address the social allover candor work like e were as to say: Are we val? This is where you work.This is how much you in so this. So I think I personalization to as well foryou take that and make it as a shot actually as much as you can that this,I think, is important. So I got a few questions laugh before my closingquestions, but we talked about one. You know a recent challenge that you guyshave face. If I has there been something that you guys have been, youknow a difficult situation or a challenge that you want to could talkto how you've been handling. There's a common theme to answers. I'll be honestas few months on this one. It's I think the whole industry went to this as well,and I was just it was pretty cool to see it. I mean in the dark days of ovidright right. Sin Happen. I think the we had some great my similar back asassociation had some great round tables we had being daily like. How are wegoing to do this? What are we going to do as other industry around tables outthere were lending? What are you doing? A sharing best practices, and how areyou get? What do you think? How are you thinking about this? Where you doingand wasn't trade secrets, it was more about how do you asserteth cust,remember how do you get him through this pandemic and and we install thingsthe inst, I think, thanking in general, I my peers, I have it free, isn't it Iknow really well or at to the trade associations. I think our ability toinstall we were thinking very liner. We got there faster and never little bitof crisis going to was out o who said yeah you are was a churchill. I don'tknow. Somebody said that were a good crisis, good, a waste. Somebody saidthat it wasn't like it. It's yours now mark it's not mine, but it was that'strue. I think I don't think I think we are we found. We can the stall thingsfaster, get things in and we it was like, took out the stops to serve thecustom of the members to keep them in their cars to keep them in their houran.Those things that at the Anas like the industry came together, a regulars cametogether. It was like it was just a it was, and the investments that we made ashort in the cycle time nut because it was like we got to do this fast. I mean it was man. Do you think that shortercycle time will be permanent learning for USA for the industry as a whole,because there is a chance to like you...

...pulled out all the approvalrequirements? You got the committees out of the way you got stuff done andthen, like the committee's, come back next month, Covin over like no? No, no,no! No, we got to slow back down. Do you think that becomes a permanent pace,change or more of a one timer, you hope it doesn't it Dostai think just humannature is just like Gerace, always creaks in so I sort of like you know wedown size. We had moved to this house, we had it was discussing how much stuffwe got rid of. I took a stain and you go to spring clean you just you justgot you mean, so I think there's a it was a good purge right to do that tothe reduced cycle times the approval process, but you got to have goodgovernance right. You got to have those things. If you got to have the rightcard coon place, maybe you don't want bills to suspenders, but you want goodguard rails are solid, and so you can you have to have that in there, and soit means I think, peel back. I say why are we asking for this twice? We canhave we just do this one time or so, and it Veduta O. I think that's thebeauty, video, so it's like ready and fire versions ready an a a an fire. Youknow I mean so which have strain the past of all yeah. The banking industrycertainly ready Amamare does sound like pretty good description of o bankingapproval processes. I've experienced this already am because it's been so losince you taught you like you fire, because you miss the whatever that atthat Consueta ets moved age move guys, I T. is there anything you were hoping?I was going to ask you today that we didn't get to that. You want to talkabout, or did we did? We cover everything I just you know. I think wetalked about it. I think more on this. The whole thing calotin changingcustomer member preferences towards Digital Fasces. He Sue, but I thinkit's Percil to just know who I am I mean mie spent some time and I didn'tspend enough time on that, but I mean I just make it were. I think there's thatat to me, I think, is how you different it yourself in the market place. Isthat really, I think sation? I agree, and this is one of the things I've beentalking to a lot of bankers about, is the investments and the infrastructure,level technology and really the data technology, so that you can you knownot. I ask the questions when you go to lone application. Like me, you know:What's Your Bank Account, I you're my bank right. Why are you asking me this?You know, I think you know you want to refiere mortgage well. Tell me aboutyour mortgage. I'm like you, have you have my like. Wawah e, you talk, so youknow those kinds of things I think are critical, but they're not easyinvestments. You have so many silo systems where data resides, you callthe call center and they don't see the loan, because it's not in the callcenter system and so that investment in technology to enable what you'retalking about the kind of seamless experience across channel it's hardright and it's when I talked to lie. What were I in Tess? I would investthere because you can build the best experiences in the world, but if youdon't have the ability to share that data across I mean it's not going towork as well and so that that infrastructure of a common datainfrastructure, layer technology, I think, is critical and it's whatenables to your point, the personalization, the knowing thingsthat you already like. If there's anything, if there's any advantage, mycurrent bank should have a and winning me for a customer in the next product.It said you shouldn't have to ask me much of anything. I just go yeah YeahJeff. We know here, here's your offer and if you can't do that, then digitalmobile isn't going to win the day because you're no better off than theother guy. With the moves you got to create that that loyalty that S, a ashow you do it, and so I used to thank you so like the things like what neverwould happen, I was that one that was that banker at one time like you can'tdo to on this there's just no way t e o come talk to me right. I remember itwas another writer. Other writing car lots back way back on when credit mileswere first coming out, and I looked at every single one. I wasn't automatedcredit deciding we used to credit burals and he had a fico score and allthat kind of stuff. I'm like you're gonna hear that I likes me with them.She think she can make a better decision. Then I can't well. It canmake a thousand times better than I can, because it takes all the ever Tisi justbecause it's going right to the critical things right and it's like ais in his cot, doing it faster. So those are the things I've learned overthe years like you just we got to continue on that path. Yeah. I agreeall right, so I've got my standard, closing questions that we could do. Iwon't call it rapid fire, but you know I like to end with these saying threequestions and I get some really inside...

...answers so number one. What's the bestpiece of career advice, you've ever gotten, so I've been very very blessedfor over the years to have great mentors. I mean just been blessed withmentors, and so I try to take the fine mentors that I work with right and I tothat outside the work people I just back like people that I respect and howthey raise their kids, how they you know things that I utthan thinkin.There was two two things I learned. One was more about being a leader, then onewas my choice of my career, so I first of my choice of my career so came upunder graduate school finance Undergrad I got picked up by the bank and one oftheir what they call their management. Training program was based eighteenmonths for the first six months is basically, this is everything you learnin school forget. This is how I can state met out thanks. Local things islike your, like all your formal credit orany, whether it was commercial,corporate lending or consumer lended. Then after your six months, you wentinto your rotations and I had a mentor at the bank that I knew it was apersonal credo, the family, and so I was he was great to metro my career,and I remember I wanted to work with the deltas and the coca colas of theworld and that's the man Corentin. Those are the flying big yeah raise.They get fi jets and I thought consumer Lenin is kind of like the regular armyto use that kind of analogy like they did yeah you they just got it. Theydidn't have machine guns. It was like on the ground that fly boys and stuff.I Remember Takis, I had creeters experience. I worked at Mon carender,an that's a old name Asera I wore in the CUDENDAE T I was making like theywould come by a tractor. They were comin me and I would take theapplication we ud do the financing park yeah. I knew about credit already aboutconsumer crit and I don't forget him. Tell me it's like part: Don't go withthose live boys. Don't don't I mean you could do corporate can filene. He goesbut consumers where it's at and so I'll, never forget. We did you had to makeyour choice of what kind of track you were going to do commercial like, likeleaning, the car dealers, that kind of thing yeah or like the a the corporatelike the deltas and the Home Depot of the world right and then you hadconsumer lanty or you put a piece of paper down and there was like threestacks and I'm going man for one person up there, and that was me. I was littusconsumer be to commercial and corporate landy there like, but the beauty ofthat was out of the eighteen people in my class. I got more attention becauseI was the only one in there and I wasn't yeah yeah I had was a time forthat next rotation white. I went into the branch work of the branch. Whitiecalls an worked in a COLTER. I worked in collections. I work. I got to doeverything I'm overseeing today. That's the I got way back then I could havebeen a corporate banker, not that that's not fun, but I consumer man herenot a Wall Street thanker, that's just that's just to Ian. That was a advice.I got that sent me on my path today. Thirty four years I've been in consumerlending, Aheer ee, O Mine Harar. The next piece of ice I got and justlending was- is I had to make a pit of decision. Do I want to run my own deskor lead people, and then he ye my mentors that mark remember like you gotthrough that out, and this is managing people and getting to do things theywouldn't do on their own is where it's at, and so he said, I want you rememberone thing: He says you manage assets, but you leave people o and that's likea bank of the mess that in you lead people, and then he had this wholething about servant leadership. He says that that's what I mean by startleadership is your: If you're asking your people to do something that youwould you would do it yourself, you gonna ask to be something you word anddo yourself right, but and that's true, the certain leadership model the wholething. It's not a position of weakness is more of a poison of strength andit's committing when you're wrong. It's like it's like Hey, I'm not good atthat, and I I want yes people on my team. I A people who have challenged methat that's the that's what it taught me out, and that was when I was justyoung, my head, a very low eq is coming to school. You know how set on smartand everything you know when you, your twenties and you start managing people,and it was a big piece about therdie ship and then you leave people and youmanage assets water than you twit. You switch that around you've got a messedup interesting. You mentioned mentors and two and towards it, gave you apiece of ice. Do you have advice on either? You know for younger peoplefinding and taking advantage of mentors or for those who are further in theircareer, how you can be a good mentor. I feel like that's an area whereeverybody you hear a lot of like you,...

...should get a good mentor and then howto find how to take advantage of a mentor who's there and then, on theother side like how to be a good mentor or not things that I here discuss asmuch, and I find them challenging personally like how to go to asksomebody for advice or to be a mental or in vice versa. Yes, at my stage, I'mmore of the giving back that right. I like yeah, because of that a first, mytwenties versus later in life. But to me, I think, of the things about mentoris: Is that you you're an advisor and then you can be a adviser which I thinkis different than a mentor, and I think there's got to be chemistry there andyou can't force a mental relationship is e. it's either that you hit it off.You know that when you're talking to somebody an so I give an advice to thekids kind of school like hey. I want to look at at thanking I'm thinking aboutthis and I got a lie: Go on the lytic Sash and do this and then some of thoseI say of the last probably year two years, I've had a probably seven to teninteractions. Other seven to ten majority of them have been advised justget it month, three of them to this day, I'm still talking to because hechemistry there and it's easy to talk to that person and the ears are open onboth ends, and so I know you can't force had just like I'm going to findmyself a mentor. I think you need to go out. I need to find one, but it may bea couple. People can talk to to get that M fit whether it's because youhave similar likes outside at work. Instead of a background up bringing yougot to find what that is, and it's got to be more than just that job yeah. Ican't be just a her. I need somebody who's got this roll. That's going to bemy my guy. You got a little person relationship, but it's I think it'sthat it's you know it when it's like on to sees. You know it when you're it'slike yeah, it's just. I don't know like this. There's a chemistry and know howto say, but you know when you talk and you just and Tis said in an you at mylike, Oh Gosh, I got that purse tomorrow, maybe like I'm lookingforward to talking that person yeah. Absolutely all right, and my secondquestion is always: What's the single best piece of advice, you've gottenabout consumer lending, I feel like we spent the last forty five minutes. No, I think it's a the you, it'scontinual learning like O, you got to be a life, an you got a sharp in a satall the time. It's like keep. What's going on in the history of consumerpreferences, member Cofrentes. I think it's always staying on that piece. Justjust like at art, research and development. I mean it's easy when you,when you're a pharmaceutical, you get research development, and that is thatis your budget right. It's a big party in an area and we don't think that wayof thanks and I think to me it's like always saying that a whole innovation-maybe it's something back to do today or you got to look at ten things. Youget one nugget. You know I mean that you see I to it might be something hereyeah, but I think it's always out there alone. That's why I love the tradeshows. That's why I love the Tre Association, but we I talked about theBA yeah. The interaction there is I can. I can see a bunch of people at one timeand I just think what either talk to form Eventa Baker. You know what wereyou? What are you in the in import, talk to us a potential supplier, and Ican see him at one time and not have to have like a series of going off callsat Pickin about to the time I think, reading consuming. You know, I think Ifind in other things outside of our industry. Like look at a technical, Imean woe what er fin texoma that, but whether what's apple doing what's Imean and reading and yeah, assuming that type of information you canunderstand, were an super prefence are going or where markets are going andnot just typically banging a right. I like that idea. You need an Orindge,even if you can't call it a rand budget time, it's more investing your time.Right, I mean is, is yeah and those those are things. What is the oldhundred one two, three four thos or quadrate to right: important, noturgent, easy to easy to set aside, but the critical to make sure you make timefor kind of actions that are laying the foundation for the future, but not thenot the burning fire right like in the last, my as cost always. What is onebold prediction you have for the future? I L. I call this my. I can invite youback and tell you if you are right, a wrong question, but bold prediction forthe future. You know it comes to lending or whatever comes to a consumer,letting I think banks are here to stay m this. That sounds pretty I mean I wasworried about the steers. I think banks of her to stay. I think I just see itand I think then, we've heard a lot and the pemican of come cook in a marketright. You got to got a remove road box, those type of things, but thanks for tosay t I were, I think you because...

...they're going to be consolation.Absolutely, I think there's consultas industry that come beat that, but Ithink thanks your staying. I think people want to do a business for thingsthat we've got to do what we got to do. Did they get fast, easy, simple to dobusiness with US fast, easy, simple? That seems like the mantra of this, ofthis conversation, Marcus make things as sad. Sympathise steals. Yes, sothank you yeah! We do our best mark. This is a great conversation. I reallyappreciate your making make the time today, thanks for joining us. Thank you. Upstart partners with banks and creditunions to help grow their consumer Lon Port Molios and deliver a modern alldigital lending experience. As the average consumer becomes more digitallysavvy. It only makes sense that their bank does to upstarts a islandingplatform, uses sophisticated machine learning models to more accuratelyidentify risk and approve more applicants than traditional kind ofmodels which broad rates near zero upstarts. All digital experiencereduces manual processing for banks and offers a simple and convenientexperience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance yourexisting personal and auto lining programs or you're just getting startedup star, can help up star offers an into in solution that can help you findmore credit worthy borrowers within your risk profile with all digitalunderwriting on boarding, long closing and servicing it's all possible toupstart in your quarter, learn more about finding you borrowers, enhancingyour credit decision, ing process in growing your business by visitingupstart for Dash Banks, that's upstart for Dash Banks, you've been listeningto leaders and lending from upstars make sure you never miss an episodesubscribe to leaders and lending in your favorite podcast player usingapple podcast, leave us up with grating by tapping the number of stars. Youthink the show deserves thanks for listening. That's the next time theviews and opinions expressed by the host and guests on the leaders andlending podcast are their own, and their participation in this podcastdoes not imply an endorsement of such views by their organization orthemselves. The content provided is for informational purposes only, and thediscussion between the host and guests should not be taken as financial adviceby companies or individuals. A.

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