Leaders in Lending
Leaders in Lending

Episode · 1 year ago

The Modern Move Towards Experiential Banking w/ Jim Wechsler at WSFS Bank

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

With the shift to digital, people are coming into retail branches less often — but for more important things. Because of this transition, banks are making the switch to experiential banking — less focused on routine transactions and more on becoming trusted financial advisors. 

In this episode, Jim Wechsler, Chief Retail Lending Officer at WSFS Bank, shares how his bank has been transitioning to this new model and why he thinks a fintech partnership makes sense. 

Jim has been in banking for over 10 years. His main focus has been on consumer lending, fintech partnerships, and corporate strategy. WSFS Bank is the largest and longest-standing community bank in the Greater Delaware Valley. Their motto: We Stand For Service.  

We discuss:

- Why partnerships between banks and fintechs can benefit everyone

- Transforming retail banking into experiential banking

- The value of focusing on the customer experience

- Investing in back end processes for a delivery transformation 

Want more lending advice? Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and here. 

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There are three big components and why a customer might slipped bank price. You know, the economics have to where, it's got to be convenient and there's got to be trust, and every customer value those three things very differently. You are listening to leaders and lending from upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve their product offerings. Each week here, decision makers in the finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry, Best Practices around digital transformation. In more let's get into the show. Welcome to leaders in lending. I'm your host, Jeff Keltner. Today I talked to Jim Weshler, the SVP and chief retail lending officer at Whisfiss Bank, which is, we stand for service, a regional community bank based in Delaware. That's really fascinating conversation. Jim Talks about, you know, the role of branches in a digital world, what he describes as customers using them a less often but for more important things. Talk through the FINTECH partnership strategy they've had where, how and why, Jim Sezos is important ways to augment the banks capabilities of what he does see as the core ways of bank earns loyalty in the digital age. And finally, Jim makes it one of the better bold predictions I've seen at the end of the podcast. So stay tuned and listen to thought at the end because I think it's quite an interesting one and something everybody will probably have an opinion on. So enjoy the conversation. Hey, Jim, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today. I really appreciate your taking the time. Thank you for them. Yeah, so, you know, you and I've known each other for a while. We met way back when having conversations, but I wanted to start this conversation off with you know, we had exchanged some information advance about different topics and you had made some comments about perspectives you had about consumer lending that had changed. I thought were really interesting and so I kind of wanted to dive into that. You want to share those for the audience, then we can talk about in a little bit. Yeah, sure. So I think, along with many others, used to think probably five years back, that banks we're going to have to turn themselves into software companies and they really wanted to compete...

...and be sustainable long term. Common belief was that Finn Text were disrupting and the money center banks had unlimited budgets to invest in software and community banks were going to be able to keep up. And my view and on this has changed quite a bit over the last five years. So somewhere along the way I think fintext stopped thinking they were going to completely replace banks and started to embrace the partnership model. Obviously upstart, great example that, but that combination with banks and fintext makes a ton of sense intact. Bring the innovation. The customer experience typically an obsession with a single product, healthy obsession and expertise. Banks have a lot to offer as well, you know. First we've got customers, we're very good at being regulated, we're discipline, we've earned a lot of trust over the years because of all those things. But we also have balance sheets, we've got all the other products and services to eventually offer customer serrs as well. So you know, I definitely think banks, community banks like Whispas, need to be more tech savvy, and we are. We're getting there, but I no longer see fintext is that pure disruptor that I thought they would be five years ago. I think Finn text are coming around to that. Yeah, I mean I've been saying this for a while that I think the ultimate combination is banks plus fan tax and I think vintax. Have to choose. Either you become a bank and build up, to your point, some of the assets that banks have that that give them advantages in the market are you or you choose to partner. I think some are choosing one path over the other, but I think that models is about right. How do you think about the money center banks, in the big banks in this space? I mean it's interesting because I think most of them still are investing a lot of money. I mean I some people throw around the the IT budgets for these guys in the boggles my mind that they're not. I don't think it can be spending them all that well, with a big must be doing something. But how do you think about how that changes, how you compete with the big banks who are still spending really large sums of it? I think you're right on the FINTECH partnership side, but I'm curious your thoughts on how the competition with the big guys changes. Listen, I'm not sure we're kind of return they're getting on their investment, but they're doing a good job and, I hate to admit it, there they've developed...

...good products, they've develop good experiences, their technologies is hard to match. In a lot of ways it's still easy for us as a community bank to cant rest what we do to what they do right. We're in the market, we live in the market, we know our customers, we have local decisionmaking. So I mean we compete with the big banks every day and they they're good at that. They're good at but we still like our competitive position as a community bank because I think we just we have a different level of trust with our customers. Let's dive into that a little bit. So you talked about, you know, the assets banks have and bring to the party that you know will help you either, you know, not be as concerned about fintext but really bring to a partnership model. How do you think about the core assets that a bank has in this world and what value they're bringing and things like how to branches play that, things like that, like what do you think of those core values? Yeah, so to me I think there are three big components and why a customer might slipped bank price you know, the economics have to work, it's got to be convenient and there's got to be trust, and every customer value those three things very differently. It's harder, think, in digital channels to build the trust component, but I think digital channels are really good at the price component and inconvenience. So so those are pretty strong. The Way I think about the branches is there's still a ton of value in the human touch and I think I think at our company were we're very good at this and we do a good job at it. Our head of retail banking always says that our service model is experiential. So it's something you kind of have to see in person understand it. So we don't want the branches to completely go away. There are a great opportunity for us to showcase what what kind of makes us special as a community bank. But the role of the branch has completely changed. Customers go less off them, but for more important things. They go to get something fixed, they go because they're trying to trouble shoot their APP, they go to get advice or to buy something and because branches people don't go quite as often.

They don't have to be on every street corner anymore. Customers are willing to go a little further because they're going less often, but they definitely still want to have access to people and they want to be able to look somebody in the eye when they need help with their money. For us, there's two big things that need to happen for this transition to really fully occur. First, we need to get some of the routine transactions out of the branches, you know, things like depositing checks. Otherwise we're going to be we're going to be too bogged down without to do anything else. And second, we got to elevate the talent within the branches so that they can really be true advisors to customers. And that doesn't happen overnight. You know, it's easy to have that vision as to what it eventually needs to look like, but you know, the trick is trying to execute on that transition over a period of time while bouncing what customers want and quarterly earnings and everything else that goes into retail banking. I love that model. Gym less often, but from more important things. I think that's a great way to describe the role of the branches in the modern world. And then I think the description of fewer but maybe a different trained, more train staff to handle the more complex issues is a really it's a good description of what I've kind of roughly heard some people talking about about what's going on. How do you think about the timeframe for that and the core efforts to have your branch is ready to handle that? Because it those them like you're kind of in some ways putting less on the branches but frankly, in some ways putting more on the employees in terms of they're not really transactional operational roles anymore. It's really more of an advisory role, which is maybe, I think, a goal for branches in the past, but it sounds like it's becoming more of a reality in the core of the branches roll. How do you think about the core steps you have to take? If somebody agrees with that, like how would you recommend what he says? This is how we go about transforming our branches to serve those kinds of needs? Yeah, this transition's been happening for for a very long time, you know, ten twenty years. So our transition at with fist started with going from personal bankers to the universal service model, so that was a big transition for us. NOAIL's kind of the next evolution in that where...

...they're, you know, going from universal service models to just advisors. Everyone kind of thinks it's going to happen overnight where a couple years from now there's not going to be branches. I do not believe that. I think it's it's going to just be a slow transition to those branches just being less, you know, as I said, not on every street corner anymore. So it's been happening a long time. It's going to continue to happen. Most of it's happening through bank consolidations. Every time you see bank M and a, you know there's there's a fair amount of closure is just to try to optimize the network and we've been part of that as well. So it'll be a slow journey indeed. And now one of the other things I wanted to talk about in the context of this kind of shift with digital and the different role branches or maybe playing as how you think about what a bank does to earn loyalty and the opportunity to you know, I think one of the core things to the business model is is selling multiple products to a customer having a customer interact with you on for multiple products. How do you think about how you earn that? I mean I feel like you used to be the branch was nearby, so when I needed something, that's where I went and that's how the bank retain that relationship. Obviously that's shifted a little bit. How do you think about the core elements you have to achieve to earn that kind of loyalty and that multiproduct relationship with a customer today? Yeah, great question. So it's different than the branch model right, completely different. In the digital world, as you guys know probably better than anybody, you've got to be easy to deal with. You can't ask for the same information twice. Less clicks, optimized for Mobile, integrations with other APPs people are using and all those things build value for customers. But, like I said, in the pest it's harder to build the trust component. So I think if you've really got a surely digital channel, you have to be ultraconvenient and the price needs to be really good and if you can do those two things really well you can learn cross product loyalty even without, you know, the trust of looking somebody in the eye. So I do think it's possib big as but I think it's I think maybe one of the things we're going to have to learn as an industry how to do effectively over the next couple of years, how to maintain that level of trust. Although I totally agree with your assessment.

I mean, I'm the same way. I want to transact on my phone, but there're certain times I have questions and I don't want to look up at Faq, I want to talk to somebody go how do I do I handle this and that, and gender's a tremendous amount of trust when I can turn to some money and get get a real answer and conversation about a more difficult question. Yeah, and as a community bank, we have customers that want to come in the branch every day. We have customers that don't want to talk to anybody. They want to search for banking solutions at three am on their phone. So we're in a difficult spot because we have to serve, you know, that wide range of customers. No, it's true, you do, and you don't have what some, I think some of the Fentex have relied on, which is, you know, serving a segment of the customer as well that likes the way they transact. But you really do have to meet people where they're at, which is, you know, a wide variety of starting points and preferences, which is a little bit more holistic. I think one of the things many fentaxes don't appreciate about the challenges banks have is that their customers can be can run the spectrum in a way that's not always true for online only products. So if you don't think banks are becoming software companies, and particularly community banks, regional banks building their own experiences, it seems like you need a way to get products and market that are new, that you're not developing in house, and I think that kind of leads naturally to this model of partnerships with Fentex. So talk to me a bit about how you approach that, how you think about it, what you guys have been doing. So I think it's an interesting model, but frankly I love to explore how you do it well, because I think I think many institutions I've talked to have struggled with whether it's diligence, processes, implementation, actual executive product and market. Those partnerships can be alluring, but but challenging to really execute on it, and so would love to understand both your strategy behind where, but how you do it well, because I think that's not a not a widely shared skill set among many institutions at this point. Sure, so, we've been doing lending partnerships for a long time, but we really committed to it starting maybe five years ago, in two thousand and sixteen, and the reason for it was we wanted to diversify the consumer lending business. Our commercial lending business was growing at a really great pace and we want to be able to keep up with that and hopefully to learn a little bit along the way, because we were seeing everything that that Finn text...

...were doing. You have to be dedicated to it and you have to dedicate resources to it and you have to have very clear accountability internally as to who owns it. Right now, we have, believed, three partnerships within our consumer lending business. The way we think about it is our core competency is helocks, so we do that ourselves. That is our business that we think we should be focused on and we try to get better at that every day. We do home equity installment loans as well, but that's a harder business. It's a little more difficult, a little more compliance. So we do have a partnership in that space because they're the experts at it. Same thing with student loans. They can be tricky. We have a partnership in that space and now well with upstart. So our strategy is not to pretend that we're experts in everything and we partner when we think we can create a better experience for customers. I like that strategy. Talk to me. I thought your statement on dedicated resources and dedicated accountability was really interesting. One of the things I've seen is the number of different functions and Pank that has to get involved in these decisions. So I'm curious where you think about when we talk about dedicated resources. Where within the institution do you have dedicated resource these kind of partnerships, and where does accountability said? I mean I've seen an innovation offices or in the line of business or somewhere in a corporate strategy group. Like how do you think about the accountable party and where they sit within the institution? And then how dedicated resources work and the kind of cross functional teams that are involved in the diligence and execution of any kind of partnership. My prior roult be for retail lending, was the head of corporate development strategy, so I was part of, you know, sourcing and and trying to uncover these these partnerships. So I think that's the best way to funnel opportunities. But ultimately the business lines have to own it because they are the ones that are held accountable for financial results and other things. So it was kind of interesting when we started talking Jeff, you and I I was in that corporate developer role and it just so happened that my next role was consumer lending.

So I went from being like the beginning of the funnel to the to the end of it, which was actually really great transition. But one of the reasons that we have so many successful partnerships within lending is there's just clear accountability. That's how we generate loans within our consumer lending book outside of Home Equity Loans. So when you have that accountability and it actually can help you hit your budgets and gain new customers in market, get it done. Yeah, do you see any tension in you know, so you're kind of defining the corporate strategy roles. You kind of find some stuff but ultimately, you know, own by the line of business. Do you ever see maybe I'll say not tensition, but what's your your best advice on how you bring those two together? Because I can see a world where's an interesting partnership the line of business is not interested, maybe feel some ownership and hey, we do this, okay, we do. We want to make an internal how do you manage that cross functionally, because it's you can have differently aligned interests or different perspectives between the person sourcing a deal or an opportunity in the person who ultimately is going to own the execution of that partnership in the launity you works out great for you. You found it. Now now you own it, but I guess, I imagine that's not always true. Yeah, I think the best way to handle that is for corporate development or whatever the strategy arm is to be asking the business signs what they need so they know what they're looking for and if the need is you know, we're not very big in the student loan space and we think it's an opportunity. They can go out and find that if they if the need is, we think we could do personal loans better and we can actually bring a new customers because of that. They go out and try to source opportunity. So it's got to be a collaboration and it should start up front. I like that. So you're almost like a services arm in some ways from the point of view of the of the lines of business who are saying, Hey, here's the needs I have, what's out there in the space, as opposed to you have, coming from a top down strategy, Hey, here's the thing you need to be doing, and consumer like, good luck, we found a deal for you, go execute it. I like that. That makes a lot of sense and I'm curious. You've got a couple partnerships. How did you think about the areas in consumer lending that were most intriguing or enticing? You've got a pretty...

...wide range of student lending being, you know, I guess, very similar unsecure installment, but kind of pretty low yield, you know, home install home equity installment loans, which are kind of similar to the helocks that you have. How did you think about, when you were in that strategy roll the most interesting categories of stuff that we're going on in, the products that were maybe most interesting for your customers? Most interesting products were the ones that we didn't think we were the best in the market at. So we basically weren't in student lending, or we did very little of it. So we wanted to partner with who we thought was the best in the business at the time. Personal loans. We did next to none and we saw the growth in the industry and we weren't participating in it. So we try to just be very honest with ourselves about what we're good at and what we're not and partner where we think it's appropriate excellent. So I want to kind of continue the theme of like a so you're you know, you're not a software company. You're making partnerships, but I imagine there are still core it and infrastructure assets that you think the bank does need to be investing in in order to be successful in the long term. So how do you think about what are those kind of institutional or infrastructural investments that make the most sense for you and how you do spend, you know, the IT budgets that you're not spending on software development for these new platforms or these new products? Like where are you investing that you think make sense for the long term? Sure so we're trying to invest a lot in our back end systems. So we're trying to create better processes around more modern solutions. I think too many digital transformations focus on that front end and especially for lending, you end up with it online application that isn't much better than a web form and then it goes through the same manual process as it would of if it came in on paper. So we see a lot more value getting a lot more value at a better underwriting systems, processing, workflow, crn and then we could put on that front end system down the road and it would be a true digital first solution that's actually functional. So the other thing we've found that investment in process have really, really positive impacts on employee engagement. HMM, because our employee has been...

...less time when on tedious workflow work and more time on the fund stuff, helping customers, improving other parts of the business. So that's been our focus. Interesting, I wouldn't question fall, but I think it's a very smart strategy. To be to be honest. I'm say the Front End, the web form like not that sophisticated, but how you can turn that into an experience is a lot about back end. I'm curious how you're approaching or if you have any advice on kind of unifying data infrastructure internally, because one of the things I do find is you can focus on back end, but if it's siload, then your ability to serve a product customer cross product or for your banker to have a holistic view can be challenging. Or even just to do like a marketing analytics on the value of a customer relationship. Of I've got three different systems that are on the back end. How do you think about that? Need to be well designed for specific product versus having the ability to have kind of fully cross institution view of a client? We launched what we call our delivery transformation, which is major investment technology and data infrastructure, maybe two or three years ago and you know, part of that was was front end investments to help improve a customer experience, but major part of it was what we call infrastructure, mainly data infrastructure, which is multi year process, major investment, lots of work, but it's not the it's not the most interesting investment you can make right it's not something that pay it pays for itself in a year or two years and it's it's definitely not easy. So we've been at it for a long time. We're started to make progress on that front. We're trying to supplement it with crnd systems and other things to really bring that together. But I would just say it's it's hard and we're working through it and the value will will come down the road right, especially as we end up putting really good front end solutions on on our infrastructure, because then they are actually are functional. One more question on this. How do you think about getting the how does the institution get on board with making that kind of investment that pays off in the long term, but maybe not...

...the short it's maybe one of the hardest problems and investments in general, and technology investments in particular, is it's easy to optimize for what I can get some value in my next pl planning my quarterly results, ione to put money there and not the stuff that is really transformational over a multi year time frame. How do you think about making those decisions and getting the institution on work? So I think it's a place a lot of people fall down and you end up, you know, optimizing for the short run and missing the longer term. Trends that are really important. So we have a we have a pretty good discipline of doing a three year strategic plan, obviously every three years, and we meet with the our entire board and Executive Management Team for multiple days off site to figure out what our strategy is and and our delivered transformation started there. So it started with complete buy in from the board and Executive Management Team as to what we were doing. And some of those investments, like you said, don't have quick payback. So the key to it, especially for a public company that's got quarterly earnings and things like that, is just to commit to it and communicate it and communicate it to every constituent you have, from associates, employees to customers to investors, and continue to show progress to the board. But everybody, from top to bottom has to be committed to it. I like it, commit to it and communicate it. So I don't know if you prepan that phrase, but that's a nice little, nice little phrase how to get it done. So the next thing I wanted to talk about a little bit was, you know, what's the biggest challenge you guys if faced in the last year as an institution? And talk people about like how you approached it, what it was, how you approached it, what results you've seen. It's been a challenging here on many fronts, I imagine. Les Yeah, let me think. Let me think a couple of times there. So PPP, I'm sure a lot of bankers have said this, especially the first round of PPP was was a huge challenge for banks. Our company was no different. It was limited, guidance changed every day, customers were going crazy manual processes, the systems crashed every day. It was crazy but at the same time, probably the most rewarding thing myself or any of my co workers have really ever been part of. I think...

...everyone who works in banking knows how important it is what we do for customers and our communities, but nonetheless, the reputation of banking is kind of been on a decline for for some time. So PPP is a really cool opportunity for for US bankers to step up and more directly help people during a time and need. That's that's interestly, I definitely had heard PPP as a challenge, but this sense of reconnecting to the mission in the community through that effort is that I hadn't heard that before. Makes Sense because it was certainly a chance for the industry to step up and really help help out, and I think it went remarkably well. do or you guys happy with how it went in the end? I mean it seems like it. Despite all the challenges, in the end people were able to distribute funds, help out businesses and really make a difference. CURISPI any thoughts? Yeah, we were happy. I think most importantly, are customers were happy and it worked. I mean asset quality results across you know, all of banking were saved because of that and customers were saved and jobs were saved and they really was a successful program it was broad and it was big, but did its job. It did do ultimately achieve the results that were desired of it. So that's a despite that the challengees and execution, that's great. And then the last thing before I get into my my final three questions, is is there anything you've executed on recently that you've been surprised by the results of or that kind of you know, you weren't expecting quite what you got. Yeah, again, not this is not unique to us. It's actually not unique to banking at all, but we were really surprised by how well the transition of working from home when obviously there were plenty of challenges. Those challenges still exist today, but we had done drills in the past to test hert our remote workability and they went okay at best, all right. But I think this really just highlighted our ability to adapt and innovate when we had to remember back, you know, one of the early days of the pandemic. Art Ceo said to me people hate change, but they have a remarkable ability to a death, and...

I think that shine through here. Now we're finally starting to come back to the office a little bit in person. That's more change that people have a wide range of opinions on, but overall is gone pretty well so far. Are you expecting any permanent shifts in your work strategy if you guys not decided yet what you're going to if you're going to make any more permanent shifts? And I think every company is struggling with some of this seems better, some of this seems worse. How do we balance what we liked what we didn't with the kind of need to get back to something some resembling normal and obviously banking institutions have a more substantial challenge and that branches maybe fewer, but they're not you know, to be an in person interaction you got to be in the branch. So I'm curious if you've got any long term perspective on what you're going to do or shift because of the experiences you've had. I think the world's changed and clearly those is going to be things about how we work together that that will be different in the future. But we have tried to avoid making bold declarations about what our company's going to look like going for we're not we're not going to be a hundred percent remote. Ever, we're not saying everybody's back five days a week, you know tomorrow. So we're trying to really learn and and stay flexible because things are are changing every day and we're still trying to listen to what, you know, our associates are telling us. Yeah, I think that may be smart. I know some of the Silicon Valley companies have made bold proclamations about what they're doing and then secondary bold proclamation about how they're changing the bold proclamation they made six weeks again. So I think we are still all trying to feel out what the real future feels like in what the right answer is. So maybe a little bit of prudence and in wait and see makes sense all right. In the last thing I've got, Jim, I think you saw these in advance, so hopefully you're prepared, but I always like to end these conversations with the same kind of three questions, so I'll be curious your answers. And the first of them is what's the single best piece of career advice you've ever gotten? So I was told pretty early my career to listen more than I talk. I try to live live up to that but you know, far from perfect on it, and not just about the ratio of how much you talked versus are you listen, but really the quality and how people listen to each other.

I think all too often, especially in business, during meetings and other conversations, people are so busy thinking about the next thing they're going to say that they're barely listening to what the other people around them are are saying. And I really think that listening as a skill and it makes you a better employee, but I think it definitely makes you a better manager, better leader. Like that. was once told you have two years and one mouth. Use them accordingly, and it is a hard one for me, but I like it. And I will say one of the things I find that feels awkward when you do it, but I'm impressed when I see it, is that pause when somebody has clearly been listening, hasn't thought of what they're going to say and as processing and going, give me a second to like think about this. I want, I want to respond, but I haven't got a because all too often you've immediately ready because you haven't really been paying attention. So I yeah, absolutely, I like that piece of advice. So how about the best piece of advice you've gotten about the consumer lending industry or Business? So this going back to how we handle partnerships. But my predecessor in retail lending said to me that it's much easier to disrupt a product that you're not already successful. So we said we basically weren't in the student loan business. When we decide to disrupt and partner in that space, when we part partner with up start, we were doing next to nothing and on secured Lune, so relatively easy. We weren't risking a whole lot. I think it's going to be a lot harder to potentially disruptive business where we're generating lots of assets return, even if we think it makes ton of sense in the law run. There's gonna be a lot more pushback on on that type of initiative. Do you have any advice on how to do that? Mean I think this is a kind of the classic innovator's dilemma, that you can make the right choice for your business in terms of maintaining and keeping doing the thing that's generating the income, when maybe you're missing the train on the thing that's going to totally shift it. So I agree with you, but at the end maybe you do want to shift, whether it's a mortgage business or a commercial real estate business. You need to innovate in those spaces. That the driver. Do you have any advices or any thoughts on how you actually do that in the end? So I think it goes back to when we made technology...

...investments. I think you've got to get full commitment from everybody and you've got to communicate it. Other than that, it's it's it will be a challenge. Challenges are always fun there. They'll make the make the job interesting. Right. Yeah, in my last question. Do you have a bold prediction about the future for us? Yeah, so I think it's inevitable at this point that big tech is going to get into lending, still probably in some sort of partnership with traditional banks. You're already starting to see it with Amazon getting into work in capital loans. Google and others are making really, really big venture investments into Fintech. I ultimately see them getting into some of the more complex products. I think it'll depend a lot on regulators and their appetite so to allow them into the space, and I could be wrong with this. I don't see any of these big tech companies wanting direct regulatory supervision from any of our regulators, but I think they're going to find a way. It just why the nature of bowl predictions is that you could be wrong, otherwise they're not bold enough. Yeah, you make a prediction on who you think enters a space first. I think you see Amazon certainly playing around the edges with some of their business. Google has the Google pay APP and a number of you out financially oriented assets where obviously a lending business could could easily fit. You want to make a you want a prediction on which of the the big guys gets in her probably your old mold employer. You Think Google? Well, Google, if you're listening. Yeah, you know, call me up if you want some on how to do that. I like I like Jim's prediction. We're happy to help you out, but I think you're probably right about this space and I don't know the regulatory landscape will be interesting for these guys because they are clearly facing more scrutiny from existing regulators, let alone if they came in and had to deal with some of the financial predential regulators. But it may be a muscle there they're having to build any way and they may decide to exercise it in different ways once they're you know, the obviously spend a lot of money on their presence in Washington. So big tech in lending Jim's bold prediction. Jim, we're gonna bring you back and figure out if you were right about this one. I have a feeling it's a it's not a bad bet. Well, Jim, I appreciate your coming on to day. This was a great conversation. I think a lot of...

...a lot of interesting things and you got a lot of little tidbits. Less people coming the branches left often, but for more important things, and commit early and communicate off and I think, some great, great pieces of advice and I really appreciate the conversation. This was fun. Thank you for having me. Up Start Partners with banks and credit unions to help grow their consumer loan port folios and deliver a modern, all digital lending experience. As the average consumer becomes more digitally savvy, it only makes sense that their bank does too. Up Starts AI landing platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to more accurately identify risk and approve more applicants than traditional credit models. With fraud rates near zero, upstarts all digital experience reduces manual processing for banks and offers a simple and convenient experience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal and auto learning programs or you're just getting started, upstart can help. Upstart offers an into end solution that can help you find more credit worthy borrowers within your risk profile, with all digital underwriting, onboarding, loan closing and servicing. It's all possible with upstart in your corner. Learn more about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process and growing your business by visiting UPSTARTCOM forward banks. That's upstartcom forward banks. You've been listening to leaders and lending from upstart. Make sure you never miss an episode. Subscribe to leaders and lending in your favorite podcast player using apple podcast. Leave us a quick rating by tapping the number of stars you think the show deserves. Thanks for listening. Until next time. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests on the leaders and lending podcast are their own and their participation in this podcast does not imply an endorsement of such views by their organization or themselves. The content provided is for informational purposes only and the discussion between the host and guests should not be taken as financial advice by companies or individuals.

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