Leaders in Lending
Leaders in Lending

Episode 65 · 2 months ago

Partnering to Diversify the Portfolio and Expand into New Products

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s a changing world. You can’t do business as usual and expect it to continue to work for your customers.

That’s why innovation around new market approaches are more important than ever, and that doesn’t happen by accident. It requires investment in new technology and the right team to understand and navigate it. David Houchen, Senior VP and CFO at First Federal Bank of Kansas City, explains that lenders can’t be offering the same things they did 15 years ago, and how partners open the door for new product offerings.

Join us as we discuss:

  • How FFBKC worked with Upstart to build their unsecured lending portfolio
  • Their focus on diversifying their loan asset mix
  • The decision to partner for personal loans

You're listening to leaders and lending from upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve their product offerings. Each week here, decision makers in the finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry, Best Practices around digital transformation and more. Let's get into the show. Welcome to leaders and lending. I'm your host, Jeff Keltner. This week's episode features my conversation with David Howch in, the CFO of First Federal Bank of Kansas City. I thought this was a really interesting conversation, not least because F F B K C is slightly unique bank. They're much more consumer focused, both a localized Kansas City footprint as well as a national program for mortgages. Um they also have been traditionally very mortgage heavy shop that are looking at new kinds of products. So lots of interesting discussion around the strategy behind those different decisions. We also dove into the shift to hybrid at work, how they were ready for what they're doing to adapt to it. I think they've act have been very forward looking and how they adapt to this kind of changing environment, and it's really interesting to hear their perspective on both kind of what comes next for them after the refly boom and the mortgage place, but also what comes next for them from an internal perspective, on how they think about engaging in work and shifting physical plants and culture in a world of hybrid and remote work. So really interesting conversation, great perspectives. Please enjoy this conversation with David. David, welcome to the PODCAST. Thanks for making the time to join us here. Thanks, it's an honor to join you. I don't know about honor, but we'll take it. So I've been starting off all my conversations now with this same general question, which is, you know, most of us didn't grow up dreaming about being bankers. What was the path that led you to to this place? How did you how did you wind up in the banking industry? Yeah, like, like most it it's been uh, you know, with a with a few Um trials, trials and dream relations along the way in different paths that we didn't expect. But in college I studied, you know, accounting finance and got an NBA right after. So that that part was pretty traditional and more street path than most, I hear. Yes, so then I worked for a regional CPA firm for about ten years, which was great experience. Then I went to work for one of my UH financial audit clients, was which was an international nonprofit organization where it was in leadership for about eighteen years. So that was that was pretty neat experience where we got to travel to Central and South America, Asia, different parts of Africa and just kind of Sol saw some some sites that were, you know, not on the normal tourist path. So I really enjoyed that. That kind of ran its course. WORKED FOR A at a private university a couple of years as CFO and then one of my friends from public accounting asked me if I'd like to become cfo of his bank. So I you know it if, if you don't mind, you know,...

...starting from my starting from the standpoint of not knowing anything about banking. Uh sure, I'd love to visit with you about that. So he he for some reason hired me and kind of went through a fairly uh you know, fast track on the job training program so I've been and just been banking about five years now. So I feel like the learning curve some days is feel, still fairly steep. That time. I'm really enjoying it. That's interesting. That's quite a transition from the travel and in that in the nonprofit side, back into the banking. was that a culture shock for you? What was that kind of transition like? Um, you know, I found a head more hours in my day when I was spending, you know, less less time in the in airports. But uh, I really enjoyed that part of my life. Like I said, I got to see some some cool things and meet meet some neat people that I would otherwise not have meant and met and learned. Learned a lot about, you know, some other some other cultures and, you know, really gained an appreciation for how, how appreciative that most, most folks and other countries are, Um, two, four or four Americans, and you know how how generous overall Americans are and willing to help that we we are in other places. So, anyway, I was just part of that part of that world for a long time and that was really a lot of a lot of fun. But you know, with with getting a little bit older and travel after nine eleven becoming nut as fun as it used to be, I'm quite quite happy now to spend less, less time in airports and more time around the US. Yeah, I understand why it's hard to remember what travel was like pre nine eleven. I meet so many people now who never really experienced at the younger generation. That has never like they've always had the t s a and the shoes and whatever. Careful work evolving into old guy stories now. So we might know I'm gonna I'm gonna flip it up then, and so you know. I'M A B K C. interesting thing for you guys, I think, is that you're very consumer oriented bank. Um where I find most institutions are maybe more commercial focus, or at least fifty of their focus is really in the commercial space, and you guys are a little bit more consumer oriented in your approach. Tell me a little bit about the history of that and how you think about being, you know, a little bit more consumer oriented and your overall strategic approach versus the traditional banking style. You know, there's probably around ten thousand banks and creative unions in the United States and they each have a somewhat different story, you know, as to how how they got to be where they are and why why? You know why Youtube is do what we do, and and that kind of thing. So the first first Federal Bank of Kansas City was formed in nineteen thirty four as a savings and loan basically. So we've we've been focused on really the housing Um, housing lending for the vast majority while we still are focused on on that area, but it was exclusive for for a long time. So so that's always that's just been a...

...natural focus for us. We've we've added through the years more types of other types of consumer loans besides besides home loans. But Um, you know, we we don't do any commercial lending, we don't do any any egg lending. Um, so some some loans to home builders is about as far off the beaten path as we as we as we get. But you know, another unique aspect of first federal is that we're a mutual bank, meaning we're we're owned by our depositors. So Um, you know. So it just I think it leads to some different maybe some differing values at times and different decision making as as compared to either publicly trade to banks or or, you know, privately held, you know banks that are maybe more focused, at least at times, on shareholder issues and maximizing stock value and so forth where we try to be more focused on what's best for for our for our customers, for our depositors who ultimately, you know, on the bank at the end of the day. Yeah, it is. Your store always reminds me somewhat of the credit unions as much as the banks and and that kind of focus on the consumer side and that kind of cooperative nature. But it seems like it's worked for you. It's some accident, because you you were telling me when we chatted before we record this, that you guys have a pretty high loaned deposit ratio, which is not like the common narrative I hear these days is like deposits up, loan demand down. Help me fill the balance sheet with stuff that can put these deposits to work, and you guys are are not really in that position per se, which was really interesting to tell a little bit about where you guys are at from that perspective. So we we seem to specialize in being different than than the mainstream financial institutions. So I guess this this is another area. So I mean like but like many financial institutions. You know, we were pretty fleshed with cash for the first year, especially of of covid through really through mid Um and because we had we had so many homeloan customers, many of those folks were refinancing their their their mortgages, understandably, which was a smart thing to do, and Um led to a lot of uh we, I mean we we had a great year in because of all the refinance activity. But a downside of that was many of the home loans that were on our books refinanced and because of the dynamics of the market that time, we were we were selling most of those loans after we we refinanced and we retained the servicing of them, but we we actually sold the loan. So our our the loan side of our balance sheet got got a little bit depleted during that early twenty one time. So we over the past year focused on re rebuilding our the assets side of our balance sheet. We've put more more home loans in uh in portfolio and retained...

...those. We've build our investment balance up a little bit and we've worked with this need company called up start to uh build our our other types of our consumer loan portfolio, namely the you know, insecured consumer loans. So we've we've built that part of the portfolio really very aggressively over the past a year and a half and so those, those are performing well and and helped to u been be a source of of the investment for for liquidity. So yeah, we're are Um, you know, loaneded deposit ratio is about which is about about as high as we like to get it, but it's for us to be efficient. That's that's also kind of where we like to to operate. The keep it the home. Home loans are, you know, pretty safe and secure and all that, but the interest rates are not not as great as some of the commercial and other types of loans. So we had to stay really fully leveraged to to be, you know, profitable with a high percentage of home loans. So was that part of the ship? I mean, I'm curious here kind of focus. You talked about personal loans with upstart and I was trying to make this too deep on the upstart partnerships, but tell me a little bit about the kind of the types of loans you are interested in are putting on the books outside of the home looks. I think it's an interesting, you know question of like if we want to get outside of that, where and why? The I mean I think there's a natural like is their demand that we don't have particularly is refi probably slows down and that's likely a secular trend for a while with where where interest rates looks to be looked to be going, that the refly will be slower. Uh. And then the margin difference for a less secure product, I. Is. A A homelow being one of the most secured uh kind of loan types you can give out to a consumer. It's the margins are naturally thinner. So what's your kind of calculus on the kinds of loans and the way you evaluate products that you might want to put into the into the mix? Yeah, so we we've really the last three years been been focused on to semis diversifying our our loan asset mix. So we we want, we always want home loans to be the core of what we do and again, that's part of our, you know, ninety year heritage. But you know the as you as you referenced the the kind of economic cycle for those amps and flows and so was great. But you know this year and the last six to nine months it's just just not so great. Just everyone who you know wond to refinance their their mortgage already did and uh, there's a good purchase mortgage activity. But, you know, a lot of extra capacity. So we're looking to develop other types of loans, such as home equity loans, such as auto loans, such as the insecured loans that we where we uh, primarily through upstart, where we just we need more, you know, a higher, higher rate of return, basically to help smooth out the the mortgage...

...m cycles that that you know, they look if you look at our income, gross income and Net income on a on a graph, historically it looks like a roller coaster. So it just cycles up and down. So, but we're really focused on uh currently it's just m making that valley that's coming up to be not not so deep and uh and to kind of round round that off with with the other other types of consumer loans that that do carry a little more credit risk. But, you know, but it's manageable. We have a pretty strong credit culture within the bank. So we don't even even the H and secured loans we do we don't Um, we don't hold the riskiest of the and secured loans. We tend to be, you know, fairly, fairly selective in the in the barwark characteristics of of the loans, even and secured loans that we do retain. So we we think there's a very comfortable and profitable and manageable middle ground there to where we can have a more and more diversified um loan loan mix and remain remain profitable and not have, you know, creative issues. That surprises I didn't want to ask one one more question on this topic. It was how do you think about picking the way to go to market, particularly in the context of new products? UH, somewhat conservative risk culture. That's, you know, strong opinions on credit. How do you think about bringing new products to market? I mean, I know you obviously did a partnership with us on the personal on side, but are there, you know, context or considerations you have that are kind of how how do I go from head thinking hey, something other than mortgage would be a good and counterbalance, maybe a higher yield, something to kind of fill in that trough in the down years, to how you actually put those products in market? Yeah, so historically, like like many banks, were really not good at all that innovation. So we're starting to recognize that that it's not a not a strength of ours. So, especially on something we're going to do we think as opportunity on a larger scale. Well, we'll look for a partner. So upstart has been a great partner with the and secured loan loan program and UH, and we're, you know, testing the waters on on up starts auto program as well. We've also got a couple of of other products in the mix that we're going to develop internally where we think we have a a skill set to to grow those and we can grow them. We can start small with them and kind of work through, the work through the growing pains and UH and hopefully, hopefully developed some some success there. So so again just trying to be diversified on that. We we also added a person in the last couple of years and and kind of moved them to focus on on innovation and technology. So that's another area that's been h where we probably lagged as as a as a bank, I mean the banking industry, kind of, as community banks, I would say in J real, tend to lag on the technology front and we're no...

...exception there. So trying to Um speed speed that process up a bit, focus hires some good people to focus on that. And Uh again, I think for us and for most banks, the things we've done for the last fifty years, or, you know, in large parts, not going to help us necessarily be successful for the next, you know, thirty to fifty years. So we we need as a bank and as it's an industry, we need more, more innovation and uh, you know, more more technology and to stay, you know, better in tune to what, what services, especially the consumers, are desiring now, not not what they wanted, you know, fifteen or years. So I want to dive into a little more depth into one part of your business that I thought was really interesting, which is on the mortgage side in particular, you kind of have this interesting split between a geographic focus in the can's city area, which I like, used to live in Kansas City for a number year. So like Kansas, like my barbecue, uh, I got my favorite spots in town, but and then also a national focus, which are kind of like two very different nationally focused business and and a kind of geographically constrained, almost a metropolitan area, because it's tell me a little bit about how you think of those two businesses and managing between the two of them. Yeah, so, you know, like like most banks, we in our geographical flipprint, which we you know, generally our local geographical fliprint. We we define, you know, as the kandas Kansas City ms a. So we we do your typical, you know, networking with local realtors and and all those kinds of things, maintaining those contacts, and so that's that's a market that we would like to have as higher market share in as we can. You know that. That said, Kansas City, like probably many middle larger markets, has Um has a lot of banking competition. So there's only so far that that can go, but we want to own as much of that as we can, especially within the mortgage arena and the consumer arena. But we we also have capacity and capability to do to do loans across the country. So we, you know, invest in various, you know, lead sources and that kind of thing to to sooce mortgage loans from around the country. The technology has gotten better there so that those those you know, closings and so forth can happen largely electronically. We have a beyond the loans we hold in our portfolio. We retain many the servicing from many loans. So we retain, you know, the ability to contact those customers and so hopefully they come back to us when they are ready to buy their next house and uh, and so when those customers are are across the country as well. So, you know, we just we want to maintain and grow those relationships as much as we can. And, you know, we also have the capability with that, which...

...is something we're working to capitalize on, of developing, Um, you know, deposit account arrangements with those mortgage customers, you know, in Kansas City and across the country. So that's that's an opportunity for us that we've we've had some success on but, you know, again, with some technology investment that we're kind of in the midst of, it should help us to become more efficient at those uh at those efforts. Hopefully we can get some of those, uh, national mortgage customers to get personal loans and auto loans too. It seems like it seems like an opportunity as well. Do you think of that geographic diversity as um an element of risk mitigation as well as just a diversification and and a revenue opportunity to grab some share, because it's, you know, it's one of those things that's interesting if you're very geographically oriented and particularly focus on mortgages, that you do have some concentration risk in terms of home prices and local the local economy. Do you do you view any of that as a risk diversification or is it mostly just a balance sheet? You know, we want a little bit, you know, we need more volume. We want to kind of find new channels. Yeah, yeah, it's it's Um, it's both. I mean the the volume is probably the higher priority for us, but the Midwest is generally doesn't get it doesn't have quite the highs and lows that the coasts do. So we we don't worry reminding a super large amount about that. But yeah, it's nice to have the geographic diversification. So Um UH. And we have pretty good reporting on, you know, how many, what dollar amount of loans we have and what state and so forth. So we we definitely monitor that. So it does provide some some comfort to know we have customers across the country and are are not as dependent on one one. You know, the thecause success in any anyone geographic area. MM HMM. Makes Sense. And then the last area I really want to dive into a I know you guys have, you know, I think every every business has tried to think about what's our our hybrid work approach, what's our you know, we all got kind of forced into this work from home. We experienced a version of work that was very different than the past and probably not like the future, but but pointed us towards the opportunity for different ways of thinking about what an office culture and office space, uh, what it meant to go to work and be at work and what that physical space need to look like. What what have you guys seen or done or shifted over the course of, you know, the last two years as you've looked at the opportunities for new ways of working? Yeah, so we've we've had some profound changes, at least for us, in that area. Um, you know, before Covid we were preparing to test and work work from home stuff. So we had some, you know, equipment and procedures in place and we're going to have two or three people try it. And in March happened and okay, let's say have everybody trying this and see what happens. So so we did that and and you went surprisingly...

...well. So and we've we've also uh been in a situation where we had we had we had office, our our administrative office space that was in a uh kind of a light industrial part of town that that used to have some retail connected to it and but really that that retail had has gone away. So we've we've been kind of putting up with our office location for some time and the you know, the work from home success kind of pushed us to do something about that. So we we put our building up for sale and UH UH found a ditisturge, found some office space in a different part of the city that's more more retail oriented and uh so actually just when in the last two weeks, have moved to that location. But the new pscussion is also about half the size as the old location. So not, not all of us can be there at the same time. So so we are committing to a hybrid, you know work environment. So most of our employees will only be in the office one one to two days a week and we'll work from home the remainder of the time. So Um, you know, we've we've again had kind of two years to test this and it's we feel like it's worked out really well. For us. Our employees really appreciate the independence and focus that they can have when they are working from home. But you know, we when we do come together, we all we remember how how much richer those those meetings and those conversations are when we can um, you know, just be in the same room with one another and make eye contact and have have the conversations that only happened when when we're in person. So we're thinking we can get that, we can have the best of both worlds here and as well as have some, you know, work lunched options that go beyond the McDonald's and quick trip that we're the only two choices had at our own place and now we have multiple places and we can walk to walk to that are actually desirable eating locations. That sounds like a nice shift. So just one or two faults on that. How have you thought about, uh, any changes in the kind of the built space, like how you actually designed the office space for our world in which you're not it's like when you're in there five days a week and you're doing all your focus work in that environment, you have a certain set of needs and when you shift to a couple of days a week and maybe more focused on the collaborative components that are so unique. Does that? Does the way you design or think about the physical space and its amenities change? Yeah, quite a bit. So we went from a office space that had a lot of walls and dividers and a lot of private offices to the new the new space, which has a lot of windows, a lot of meeting rooms. No, no assigned offices or brook spaces. So you pack up your when you leave, you pack up your stuff in the backpack, you take it with you, you work from home. Then you come back the next day or whenever and, uh, you unpack your backpack and, you know, find a find a spot. You do a monitors at every every location, and you know, plug in, be sure, you know, been a couple of minutes calibrating your...

...monitors, being sure they're working like you want, and it's off to the races. So and then completely, completely different from that regard. You know, all of us that had offices and had, you know, pictures hanging on the wall and so forth. Well, those, those are those are at home at the Home Office now that but yeah, we we do spend a lot of time, a lot more time meeting you know, when we're in the office, we we attend to schedule meetings on those days and Um, you know, have low you know where there's the workstations, the Um uh, you know, cubicle balls are really short, and so just there's a lot of a lot of conversation and collaboration that happens when we're together in the office. Yeah, there's certain things that are just better better done in person and I feel like if you can really optimize the office time around those and that's that's a tremendous benefit when you can schedule the meetings on the office days and then hopefully some of the days when you work from home are a lower meetings. That has not worked out for me yet. I still have seemed to have more meetings every day than it seems ideal in the theoretical world, but that is what it is. Have you thought at all about how you think about maintaining culture? Those those elements so often are unspoken and kind of taken in by Osmosis in the context of the office and and now they need to be more and some wady's explicit or intentional in terms of how you build a culture within the organization. I'm curious if you as you've thought about this kind of new mode of work, if you've if you've had any, you know, thoughts or ideas around how you try and build or maintain culture in an environment where you're not next to each other every day. Yeah, so that really is one of the tougher things to Um, to maintain and develop and so forth. Um, you know, the first federal did a lot of work on culture, actually a couple of years before before I arrived, and you know, had many, many meetings about it and uh talked about what, what you know, values and so forth are important to us and and really land upon a set of values that I think are a good fit for for the organization. And then in the past six months we actually did a revision of those and after we, if we lived with the previous ones for a few years. So, you know, it's one of those things we just when we talked among our among our executive leadership team, we talked about values on a regular basis and so we count on those, those leaders to work with their groups and and uh, you know, stay in touch with them on that level. One of the things we developed during Covid is our our bank president communicates with all employees at least once a month via via zoom. And so culture and values and stories and and so forth are, you know, an important part of those, uh, those conversations and those and those communications. When, when, you know, we had really no, no ability for a period of time to be to be to be together and talk to one another, we realized even more so how how iportant...

...those things are. So, you know, it's kin of those popy things. It's hard to talk about and and have it make sense to anyone else, but it really is one of the most important things that we, as as leaders in in in the organization, had to Um, you know, promote and keep top of mind. Yeah, I feel like it's one of those things too. That's it's hard, as a leader in an organization, to calibrate how often you need to be talking about such things because, while you might be in tone of those conversations, each of them are with different sets of people who might only be having one or two of those and so it can feel incredibly repetitive to the people telling and delivering some of those stories and examples. But it's like, you know, it's not usually as repetitive to the to the general employee base, as it feels to the leadership team that is, that is talking about such topics. So it's I was fine if you don't feel like you're talking about it too much not talking about it enough. It's one of those things. It's it's pretty it's gonna like, you know, whether it's culture or kind of the things that are important to the UH to the organization in the coming one or two years. It's it's almost impossible to talk about those things too much, even though most of us think, okay, we we said it once, so let's everyone. Everyone soaked that in. It's it's good to go, to go and everyone remembers, but it really takes multiple times for for our you know, staff to think that, oh well, I guess. I guess they really are serious about this. So maybe we need to jump in and help them, help them go in that, in that direction, whatever the direction is, help make help make those things reality. Well, it has been a fascinating conversation. I think we've covered quite a bit of ground actually, but I have a kind of a traditional closing three questions that I ask everybody at the end of the podcast. So if you don't mind, I'M wanna throw them at you now and here we go, here we go, but the kind of rapid fire click. Number one is the what's the best piece of career advice you've ever gotten? You know so I think, and this is maybe even more for you know finance people, but it is two. Develop and maintain a a network of of of business contacts, if you will, or friends there are outside the normal group you work with every day. So in large organizations that can mean just, you know, developing more contacts, I think, within within your company or in smaller companies, which I consider, mind to be smaller, also having having a group of, you know, with friends, business contexts or whatever outside of your of your bank or or company. I've done that through an organization called financial executives international that this chapters active in various cities and have an active Kansas City chapter. So that's been a good resource for me over the past ten years. I kind of neglected this area for for some time myself. But anyways, it's nice when we're struggling with an issue or whatever topic inside a company to be able to ask someone that's appear that's working in a different environment. It's like hey, how have you ever had to deal with this and you know what, what have you...

...done to kind of wrestle with this topics? I found that be very valuable. That's great advice. Uh. Number two, what's the best advice you've gotten about the consumer banking or consumer lending space? This is a great one for you, since you've been here in the industry a shorter period of time. You might have some more immediate recollection of something somebody told you when you were coming into the space. Well, you know, might, as I tell our our UH marketing managers and so forth internally. Well, but let's just make loans to people, to people, to customers who will pay us back. So uh, kind of they kind of laugh at me and I laugh at myself sometimes with that, but you know, I do think there's a lot of underlying truth there that, you know, if if we make loans in the beginning to the right people with the right, you know, characteristics and hopefully character that they will in the at the end of the day pay us back and we'll have fewer fewer issues on the back end and with, you know, collections and repossessions and all those kinds of things that none of us want to deal with. That's it's such great advice and we we use something similar all the time here, because I think there's we'll have this question like do we need to invest more in our servicing infrastructure? In the answer is generally yes, but very often we go with the best servicing work you can do is better underwrite, like because if you know every every loan that you have to go you know, pulling the dad or call or catch up is generally alone you maybe shouldn't have made. And the question is a little bit how do we get better at at servicing and dealing with those situations, but also a little bit like how do we prevent them happening the up stream? And it's it's easy one. It's it's an easy one to forget. Better an important one to remember. I could. Yes, uh. And then my last question is, what's one bold prediction for the future? Yeah, I did. Do you ask one other guest this one, and you know I just can go a lot of places. I ask everybody. They go all over the place, but sometimes they wrap up my favorite bold predictions. It's kind of a fun question. Yeah, I guess. I guess for me I'll say them the credit cycle isn't broken and the interest rate cycle isn't broken. So we we will, we will continue to have ebbs and flows in in those things. So I don't I don't think interest rates are going to go keep going straight up as they have the last several months, that they will probably uh, kind of back off a bit for the maybe the next few months or the rest of the year or or whatnot. And you know, we've had a fairly singline credit cycle during covid with lots of you know, government stimulator steumus payments and so forth. So we're we'll probably have a little more of a significant credit cycle, you know, coming up the next time the you know economy slows, which is kind of showing a few signs of now. So I don't know how bold that is, but I would I would say that those, those two cycles are still alive and well and you know, all the government stimulus didn't change them forever. No, it kind of delayed, delayed some stuff, but it was certainly from a credit cycle point of view. Has Been An interesting couple of years to to be new to the lending space, because we saw, we've seen, we've seen a lot of different elements of the story play out over the last couple of years. So it's been interesting, but I I think you're...

...right. They're probably not fundamentally broken, just we gotta wait for them to make the full turn. Well, David, thanks so much again for joining us. I appreciate your making the time and sharing your perspectives with the audience. Well, thank you. It's it's been it's been fun for us. I don't know if it will be, you know, enjoyable for anyone to listen to or not, but I hope so. If it's fun for us, I view that as the bar. I generally I have not gone wrong with producing content that I think is interesting. My guests thing is interesting and then usually the audience follows along and if not, at least we had a good time. Awesome. I appreciate thanks for talking to me. Up Start Partners with banks and credit unions to help grow their consumer loan portfolios and deliver a modern, all digital lending experience. As the average consumer becomes more digitally savvy, it only makes sense that their bank does too. Up Starts AI lending platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to more accurately identify risk and approve more applicants than traditional credit models. With fraud rates near zero. Up Starts All digital experience, reduces manual process for banks and offers a simple and convenient experience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal and auto lending programs or you're just getting started, upstart can help. Upstart offers an end to end solution that can help you find more credit worthy borrowers within your risk profile, with all digital underwriting, onboarding, loan closing and servicing. It's all possible with upstart in your quarter. Learn more about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process and growing your business by visiting upstart dot com slash four dash banks. That's upstart dot com slash four dash banks. You've been listening to leaders and lending from upstart. Make sure you never miss an episode. Subscribe to leaders and lending in your favorite podcast player using apple podcasts. Leave us a quick rating by tapping the number of stars you think the show deserves. Thanks for listening. Until next time. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests on the leaders and lending podcast are their own and they're participation in this podcast does not imply an endorsement of such views by their organization or themselves. The content provided is for informational purposes only and the discussion between the host and guests should not be taken as financial advice by companies or individuals.

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